Unbreakable Bonds: Sisterhood in Survival with Sara Im the author of “How I Survived the Killing Fields”

But Sara, welcome. Welcome to our conversation here today.

Thank you so much for having me Brad

it is indeed an honor and a privilege to have you with me today be able to share your story, your hearing of what happened you in the past and how you are now have gone through the recovery process and be able to offer this a message of hope to others. But one of things I just want to ask you about off the bat though Sara is just told me something that's happened in your life relatively recently, that gives you some hope, give you something to smile about, give you something to feel good about. What's something happy to get in your personal life, or maybe in your professional life, it's been a good thing for you

something recently good thing said, I'm healthy, continue to be healthy. And just move to a noose, new lifestyle, move into a condo living. And we just downsize. And I think this is a very good transition for us, for me and my husband, so I'm settled in and ready to enjoy life.

So, you made a transition in life to you're at a pretty good place. Now you get decent, you got good health, and you moved into a condo and you you're moving into another phase of life. And that's, that's all good. And we celebrate that with you. But you've had various other transitions in your life, haven't you some very dramatic. And tell us a little bit to tell us about your country of origin or tell our audience a bit about your country of origin. And just a little tiny bit about your growing up life before we get into your dramatic story. Yes,

I grew up in Cambodia. My family live in the, in the village far away from the city. And our lifestyle is really simple. But satisfying. My parents are farmers, and I I enjoy the nature, nature, the lifestyle. And the lifestyle in the countryside in Cambodia is really simple. It's so simple that you wouldn't believe it. But it's really peaceful, peaceful and especially me they express their love. And it just,

that's, that's wonderful. So, you had a relatively peaceful, and in many ways kind of grown up your sound. Pretty nice, pretty peaceful and pretty idyllic in many ways. Is that a fair thing to say? You're growing up your early grown-up years?

Yeah, that's plan. I am the firstborn child. And as you know, firstborn child that spoiler alert, but going okay. Yeah, my parents appreciate higher education. They, they want me to keep going in school and never become a farmer again.

Okay, so that was part of the aspiration, at least when you're growing up to become to get your education and to go into college and things of that nature and to not be a farmer as part of what I'm hearing. Hearing you say. So that's the kind of the track you are on as it were, you were tracking to the teacher education, having a good lifestyle, good life growing up, then things changed dramatically in your country, didn't they? And a lot of people, a lot of Americans and people around the world are not quite as familiar with what happened in camp Cambodia. But tell us a little bit about what happened in your country. That led to just a really a horrible time. Tell us a bit about the background there.

Yes. In the in 1970, in the in the early 70s. I graduated from high school and went off to college. So, I'd like my family behind and my car like was in the capital city. And that in 1975, a really bad thing happened to Cambodia. When the communist Khmer Rouge took over the country. They came in as a military takeover. They drove the truck the time and their soldiers marching on the street into the capital city. It was really scary. And I did not know what to do, but they know they know what to do. They came in they shut down the country and they start to evacuate people.

When you witnessed this. You were living in the capital city when this all happened. Is that right?

Yes, capital city, in their mind, and they came in and they shut down the country. So, when they shut down its mouth partial shutdown like in the United States, it's a complete shutdown. So that mean, there is no marketplace, there is no bank, no post office, no transportation, so that everything stopped. Everything stopped. That mean, I cannot go home.

And you just mean your college was shut down as well. And so, you couldn't go home and you couldn't do anything. Is that right? Yeah,

the college was shut down. I could not go home by to my family. And then they evacuate everybody from the city.

They got the but what would you say the evacuate everybody for the city? They really tried to depopulate the city to, to the countryside or someplace else is my good? Yeah,

but they don't want any money to live in the city anymore.

so what? So, what did that mean that you were for you part of this process where you moved out of your, wherever you were living out to out to the countryside somewhere or tell me kind of how that actually worked out for you the a little bit of how that how that came down when they actually happened, that you had to actually know to move, you had to get up and go, How did that actually happen?

I had to immediately get my, my smart, my clothes and food, a little bit of food, put another little small bag that I can carry, and then get out from my apartment. And then we keep walking everybody warm on the street, a crowded street without knowing where to go. But I just follow the crowd. And I know that we have to go away from the city. So, we all had our two different roads that lead to the countryside.

So, you were not assigned a place to go or so to speak. You just had to get out of the city. Is that what I'm understanding? Yeah, we

had to get out of the city. And

then bad, really bad, really bad things started to happen and didn't they were

a bad thing. And we don't have a place to sleep. We don't have a food to eat, where we eat a lot but the food that we took from our own place and once it's good when we finish that food that's all there is no, no market, no, no restaurant that we can get more that we keep going. We sleep on the ground. And when we need to take a shower, we go into the river, go into the river and pay the pastor in the in the water and keep walking. Is he

walking in with no apparent destination other than out of the city? Is that kind of how the feeling was you just had to keep moving?

That's correct. We would just keep moving. And

things kind of went from bad to worse, is that right? I know your health you had some health problems yourself. Is that right? Yeah,

later on. During the walk, I was okay. But I was crying miserably. I want to I miss my family, you know, in our life and thing happened, everything that they won't happen to us we want to be close to family. In my case, my case my family's far away and we cannot reach to each other we don't know what happened to each other.

So, no contact at all. No letters or phone calls or anything along that line I assume? No,

not at all. And then finally we are in a village far away from the city. When we got there, they give us a temporary place to stay with somebody in the in their home. And they pull us to pull right away they send us to go to work in the rights field.

So, what was that like to work in the rice field as you said you came from a farm background but this sounds like this was a very difficult and just horrible circumstance is yeah,

I grew up in the farm area when my parents did not grow me to become a farmer. So, I can No I yeah, I have no idea what to do. When they when they pushed me to go to the rice field and just watch everybody want not, they do just so trembling. I fear for my life because this people this communist people they don't like the city people. They do this they evacuated. Their goal is to punish us. love us. They want to clean, clean up the country, they want to get rid of the people that are not useful to them. So, mine, my salary is not useful to them, because I don't know what I don't know to do the mill to do the farming. But through my, my patient and my, my compliance, I try to follow the instruction, try to do my best not to get here because I can get if I don't follow them.

So, you said you could have been killed? And indeed, a lot of people were killed. Is that being that the case? Yeah.

Yes. At the beginning, they took away the people that had some knowledge, that education that a high ranking in the previous government, they put them in a trial and throw away. We never see them again.

And they were killed. Is that what you understand? They will?

Yeah, I had many friends that lost the loved one, that way. Because when they took their fight father or their husband away from them, they never see them again.

What an incredibly heart wrenching and tragic circumstance that they went through, and everybody must have been going through and, and you were, as you say, in your, in your book, this was these were some dark days, these were some bad times. But you've, you know, it kind of went from bad to worse than it is kind of how it went for you. Yeah,

it keeps getting worse and worse and worse. And then from there, they transport me to a different place. They want to be good people, because some people they know nobody there. So, they want to bring us to the place where many people in so I got transported to another mother region. And, and then finally I end up in the forced labor camp. Oh, my goodness. The cam that one came that I belong, that I was in was for single men and woman. Okay, that mean? That mean? We are the strongest force they can put to work as strong as much as they can. So, you were you're

just clever. You were a young woman at this time. Early 20s. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you were put you are in a forced labor camp? Because you were the younger, stronger ones. And you were able to do? It sounds to me some pretty heavy duty manual labor. Is that right?

yeah. So, we will put in this cam, 1000 hours, single men and woman and they put us to work in the rice field again, in the intense sun. The sun in Cambodia is very hard. And we were there all day long. From very early in the morning, like four o'clock, they woke us up at four. And then when we went to the field, all the way until my time. So, by the time we got by to sleep, it's pretty close to midnight. Wow. So, as you can see it were really long I will in the heat. And we will stop and exhausted. They give us very little food. And we will exhaust.

So just to be clear, just to be understood kind of the circumstances you had, you're out in the field, you're not really trained to do this. You're out in the hot sun for hours and hours and hours, hard manual labor stooping over and other things. I don't think if I'm understanding you correctly, there was not like a lot of whatever machinery or anything like this. You were doing manual labor hottest not enough to eat and where they're like armed guards and this type of thing or was there you know, was it you know, were your kind of being oppressed at the same time? Yeah. So, like a recipe for disaster. Did some people get sick or even lose their lives out there? In those circumstances?

Yes, definitely. They are watching us everywhere. So, we cannot run away. We cannot go anywhere. They're watching us all the time. So, we just went down all day long to plan the right during the during the right season. And during the harvest we harvest the rice, but in between when we when we are not working in the rice field. They send us to the canal Well, the name with the canal, they just find all kinds of heavy work for us to do on my mom's thumb.

So eventually you're in this horrible situation and people are losing their health and their lives, you got sick yourself, I understand you got some sort of a disease that scepter strike? Did you ever find yourself fearing that maybe some sort of feeling like I might be next, you know, I might be, I might lose my life next, or I might be in bad shape. Is it fair to those type of thoughts ever crossed your mind?

And then the thought? And then what about that I keep thinking, I only think one day at a time, okay. I cannot plan that from my mind is thinking about my family. Okay. My mom had an attack have an accident. About five years before all this happened. She was she was paralyzed, she laid down flat on her mind for more than four years. And I was her caregiver because I'm the oldest, oldest child. So that kind of build the bond between me and my mom. That's why I was so attached to her when this bad thing happened. I wish I can go home and help out.

Of course. So, you're in this situation, you're in working in the fields, the what's category known as the Killing Fields, there was a movie came out, back in the mid-80s, called the killing fields. I remember watching that movie very much. And there was basically oppression and disease and death all around you. And you said you still kept kind of the vision of your mother needed to help her and of your family. And one day at a time, though, sounds like some pretty all things considered some pretty good coping skills to deal with it and all things considered. And yet the day came when you found a way. And this went on for years, right? You've run this base case situation for years, that you finally then you finally escaped, is that right? Tell me a little bit about how that all came about.

My funds or Skype is Skype out the infirmary. When I got too sick to work in the field, they send me to they send me to the infirmary that they said it's a hospital, but they mount a hospital. It's infirmary. People, people when they're waiting for the time to die. So, I woke up really quickly, I realized that I should not stay there. I need to do something. So, they were I I pray I asked, I pray to God to ask him to help me to the why. So, it's kind of God give me an idea that I need to sneak out. I sneak out I escaped out of the infirmary and find me meeting somebody who's so Kenyan, she arranged for me to work to her bio in the kitchen. Okay. That's, that's very fortunate for me that very,

so, there was moments, even the midst of all this horrible situation, there was a kind person and a helpful person who was there for you. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome.

So, I'm sorry. Yeah, from there, I really, I regain my health and limit, I get more, more energy, I feel a little bit better. I was not as sick as I used to be. And for months, I stayed there until I'm feel much better. And then they pulled me by that pushed me to work in the right field again, I work in the field again. So, for the time that I was all together, though, my four years towards the floor. And you had

I'm sorry, you ever worked in the fields for about four years and you escaped the one time and then they you got sent back? And then you escaped again? Is that right? That's scary. This is scary stuff. It really is Sara, to for anybody to think about this situation being this kind of circumstance and then to escape that had to be scary and in and of itself. And I just admire that so much. And so, what would you what do you think are some of the things that kept you going? What do you mean by that? What are some of the actions you either took for your physical health or for your mental health or for your spiritual health? What are some things you did to keep you go under that for years?

I hope I never give up hope. was some reason I was a little bit of math, my EU thinking that they might change thing might change. I never thought of About, about getting killed or anything like that. I'm just hoping that it will chain so. And another thing that helped me is I build a friendship. The woman in the PAM, we will be helping each other so we can call it a sisterhood. without, without my god sister in the cam helping me, I will be in a worse shape.

Sure. You've also mentioned that you prayed to God forgive you strengthen and to help you to navigate all this situation. Tell them about your spiritual walk and this whole setting here, Sarah, what I mean by that is some people when they have bad things happen to them, they can really get into a state of being where they're spiritually are dry are spiritually in a bad place. Was your spirituality was enhanced? Or was it depressed during this time? Or tell me a bit about that aspect of how you have your life

my spiritual stage is enhanced, because I know I have a limitation I cannot do my I cannot run away. I'm so weak, so sick. And I depend on God to help me. That's why I pray. If you cannot do much for yourself, you are bound to die. No cry out for her. That's what I did. I cry out for her cry for help from my God, sister and help from God. Whatever I can think of, I pray and I cry out and I need help. So, I'm not ready to give up my life because my goal is to survive the way anything takes the wind. So, I can go back home to Kuang my family.

Sure. So, you had a big motivator I'm hearing you had you, you were not ready to give up. You had your sister your sisterhood that you had society you have relationships and you had your faith in God and this overall drive to see your family again your mother particularly so you had some big drives? Or did you and these are what I'm getting at here about some of the actions the factors that came in to play here and that's awesome. So, what do you think you did? I still interested in the story about how you actually eventually got out and broke free of this tell me how that happened when you finally escaped unable to get back to some to find your family again. Did that happen? Eventually?

Yes, when they moved the team toward the end of four years, they move the pin to the jungle. So, every two weeks we could pack up and move pack up and move and I realized we are moving to the jungle and I realized oh no when they move us into the jungle that's far away from the National Road the National route is the hope that I can go on that road to my province to find my family so when they move away from that national role, I realized that I need to escape so

that was your opportunity when the removing your camp to the jungle it was right by the National Road and you were able to slip away in one form or another from the group of the guards and make your way home is I know

I know it happened a little bit longer. I did not pull the trigger sooner. So, I'm in the chow hall. And then and then I realized that I need to plan this skate so I talked to three of my good friends my sisterhood three of them I asked him to escape with me because I was too frail. I was so sick I cannot do it by myself again I grabbed I reached out to get help my friend and also, I pray and we are waiting in my time that is a lot easier to escape. So, at my time the jungle is so dark so

shall scary My goodness. Wow. No

scary and we don't know where to go what to where to turn, but we are going to do it anyway. So, we just made sure that the gods love sees us but my time is not easy for anybody to see anything. So, we sneak out my and we hold our hand and we just keep going keep working. It was Really scary. Wow.

Did you ever see adventure make your way through the jungle to a road or something like this? How did that play out?

Well, we keep walking until finally we got out from the jungle and we got to the village. Okay. That could have well it and when they come when the sun rolls, we will turn mine and we did not see them. We did not see the armguard and everything we know that we are free. Wow,

what that must have been both a scary but also an exhilarating moment. Is that? Is that fair?

Yeah.

That all four of you all four of you manage to make it to the village?

Yeah, yeah, we made it.

That's awesome. And then from there, you kind of started your life. One way or another. You found your family again. Is that right?

Yeah, they might my three friend one with me all the way until my hometown and we track down my family. But my home that we used to live, they destroy the home. Oh, my goodness. So, I had to track down to prank my family. And finally, with that,

that must have been an incredible moment to want to see your family again. It must have been wonderful. Yeah,

yeah, it's amazing. For four years, I was dreaming about that.

One of the best feelings people can have as reunion after they've been apart, right? And that's a wonderful thing. Yeah. Well, Sarah, let's talk about what you learned out of this experience and how it can be helpful to people going through other things. You know, we talked about cancer. Here's one thing we talked about that people go through all kinds of bad things, health issues, divorce, they go through financial reversals, there are people you know, I taught for a year or two ago, two people involved with the Holocaust. In the Jewish situation. There are bad things going on the world right now for these horrible things happening. But sounds like you learned some lessons here. And you decided to put it in a book. So, let's talk about why did you write your book, which is called how I survived the killing fields. And who is it for? Well,

I'll regionally, I did not want to talk about my story, I did not write did not want to write a book, because I didn't realize that my book can help anybody just want to hide it, I want to just forget the violin. But one day when I got invited to speak, at the woman club, and during my talk, one woman cry, and I found out later that she remembers how one of her teenage children took his life. And that moment, I realized that I need to tell more of my story. Because if the person that took their life, know how hard life can be, they may think twice about taking their own life.

Wow. So that's a wonderful testament to you gave that talk and people were moved by it. And so you decided to write the book. And I know you do speak, aid and do other things like that to be helpful to people. So what So who's this book? Who's this book for then? Is it for people, like you mentioned in the who the woman who's heard your speech? Is that who it's for folks like that?

For people that are struggling in life? Okay. That that have been through trauma or some kind of trauma, but they cannot forget about trauma, they cannot move on with their life, that trauma can drive them down. So I just want to give them hope that you know, there is no, there is hope. If you don't give up hope. So many, many on my reader after they wrote after they read my book, they they told me that I give them home.

I love what you just said there there is hope, even when you want to give up hope is it that what you said, you know, there's hope in spite of all the destructiveness and you saw incredible pain and destructiveness and death and disease and everything, and there's still still hope. So what do you think are some of the principles that you learned out of your experience that are helpful to people who are going through their own, you know, their own Killing Fields? If you allow me the analogy of their own problems? What are some of the things that you learned that can be helpful to other people?

Well, one thing is very important that you have to have love and, in my case, my love for my family is really, really obvious that I love my family. When you have that love, it become your purpose. When we live with a purpose, it's very difficult to recruit up online because you have a purpose. In my case, my purpose is to go find my family. So, it is kind of the right me guide me to not do I'm home to keep, keep moving on to keep going.

So that seems so it's so important to have a purpose and you said your purpose, we have the emotion of love, which is in your purpose, and in this case of his love for your family. So, do you encourage people who maybe not some people are feel beat up by their tragedy? If you will, I can't love again, or I can't have hope again. How do you help people find hope or find love or find purpose? Is there anything that we can do to help to rediscover that?

how to find love to find purpose is for love for something that made you feel happy that might that you enjoy and you're passionate about. And when I build a relationship with my mom during her, her segments, that that's kind of ground me, secure me into such a strong bond with my mom. But we other people might have something else that that gives them an idea of what is what can be their purpose, something that you are passionate about that you enjoy, that made you feel alive.

Yeah, it's sounds like it's so important to have something very tangible to look to or hope for I have purpose about in this case, it was your care, not only your lover, your mother, but your kind of purposefulness, and caretaking for her was important there. So, it sounds to me you're encouraging people to really have something that they can really hang on to something real to hang on to. Is that a fair way of looking at it? Yeah,

yeah. Another thing that I think in my case, I think my life is just for me, my life is for my family. I am I have a servant's heart. So, my life is to serve my family and my family soulmates, they love me. So, it's wonderful, sir. And also, we had to forgive. It's, it's, it's easy for me to hold on to the grants to the anger and bitterness, that they make my life miserable. But I look at this way, I said, there's so many people die. And I'm so grateful that I still hate my life and still hate my love for my family. But

what's the opposite of forgiveness? It's things like bitterness and hatred. And that's, that's not helpful isn't it really, isn't I? I'll just share a brief briefly; I had the privilege of being around some people who were survivors of the Holocaust. And their key word is forgiveness, that survivors of the Nazi Jewish Holocaust. And they're and that's what I'm hearing you say to that. Love and forgiveness are powerful emotions, because that's what has to combat hatred and hurt and all that that bad stuff that you experienced there. You got to combat it was good stuff, don't you? Yes,

yes. And also, another really important component is gratitude. Gratitude. Yes. How can you find gratitude in the middle of the tragedy like that? No, we can we can find something. But tell

me what was what was one thing you're you were grateful for, even during? I think I can think of a couple of but you tell me what is least one thing you are grateful for even the middle of your horrible time in the killing fields, what was one thing at least you were grateful for?

I'm grateful for my life. And I'm grateful for my friendship with my, my woman in the cam. And also, I'm grateful that I have a loving family, loving family that, that keep me strong. When we have somebody love you, you become stronger because of that love the power the low, make you feel stronger power

of love the relationships, having a vision of the shoot to go for some powerful things there. Tell me a little bit more about one more thing I would just want to go for because you're describing one of the things we love to talk about and teach about here. A cancer in comedy and that is how to serve others with love. How do you think your book or your talks are now you've mentioned how your family's so important to you? Is there also been a level now how your audience is important to you that people who are hearing your message and tell me if there's anybody out there you mentioned one woman is there any other stories you may have of a people who are impacted by your book or by your message where there was some change that took place you know somebody better So that may have been dealt with or something that they were able to deal with. You have any stories like that of how you've been able to be helpful.

I can ship pull story, please, one, one woman, listen to my talk. And then I had an occasion to see her about three months later. And she called me and she said, Sarah, good to see you and a gathering. And I say, oh, how could you tell me? She said, I was in your audience. But not only that, do change my life. Then I say how? How? She said, I have been suicidal all my life. But my chain, I no longer want to tell myself. I have this hold on to this full-time job. I had my own apartment. I enjoy my life now. So. So

that's wonderful. That's wonderful. You said yet another story. Yeah,

another story. When somebody in in Chicago, read my book, and she read about my relationship with my mom. And she herself, did mom have a good relationship with her mom. So, she changed to try to make an effort to build a relationship with her mother. So, mom, it's going so great. So great. And she's so thankful that in my book, I wrote about that. And she's just, she wrote, she told me about that. So, I am so grateful that Mt. Yes, she had a bad relationship a long time at Monkey King.

So, you had one person who was suicidal, he mentioned a couple of stories about when people were suicidal, who kind of changed that idea. And then you have a person who had been able to repair the relationship with her mother. That's also wonderful. Let me bring it around to one more thought that I almost always ask people. Sometimes there's something called dark humor, when we in the midst of bad things, we something to just kind of strikes us funny or whatever, even the midst of some terrible things, either in your experience of killing fields or otherwise, were there any situations that just kind of made you smile or even laugh? They think this is just so absurd, or so? You know, crazy for any episodes like that, that happened to you? Yeah.

When I, when I escaped out of the jungle and formed my family. My mom did not recognize me because I was just skin and bone. Oh, my God, she, she pampers me with her good food, all natural, organic, no GMO and all that. So, I enjoy some food, and I keep even. And then I realized this, I'm going to be fine. But what I said I'd rather be bad than skinny. And

yeah, go, hey, it's all good at that point, isn't it? It's all good. Right? So, and that's, you know, because that's kind of the absurdity of the situation, you know, you Your mother didn't that's the absurdity is your mother didn't recognize you, really, because I assume you know, going through the services, you'd lost a lot of weight and just, you've been beat up by life literally. And she was going to get you better with her food, wasn't she? Wonderful. And it's wonderful to hear you laugh about that into that's what I love to love to hear when people think about the good things in life. In this case, your family, your mother feeding you good food. It just makes us smile and makes us laugh and makes us and that makes us feel good too. Doesn't it to have they're good. They're good. They're good, good memory. Well, let's just get around to this Sara urine. Fascinating. What an incredible story. But you know, there's a lot of people out there right now who may want to pick up your book or hear this podcast episode or look at the other talks that you've done. And you're thinking, you know, Sarah, I'm not doing so good myself. You know, well, you know, I've been through a disease or I've been through a divorce or I've been through a bad relation with my mother. What is this something that you would share with that woman who particularly who is going through that really tragic circumstances what is it it'd be a word of encouragement you might give to her Our word of hope and

what a hope is that love in your life. Look for somebody that really loved you find that true love that strong love will have had built your arm because the through love, it just made them stronger. And also, what I will say is that look for goodness in any situation. In any situation. You can always find some goodness. Let's Say I call it a reframe. Reframe your thinking, yes.

Reframe your thinking. Yeah. Look, I'm sorry. Go ahead, finish your thought.

yeah, look for the good match for the blessing that I from that circumstance, you will find it.

So, look for your true love and be grateful and look for the good things in that circumstance. Well, your book is called how I survived the Killing Fields a story of hope, love and determination. Sara, how if people want to reach out to you how can they do so? And we'll put those notes on our show notes. How can they find out more about you?

The best way is to go to my website, Saraim.com. It's S A R A I M.com. You will find my book you'll find my topic that I speak about some advanced that I hold. And some other thing

They begin the book is how I survived the killing fields. You can find her at Saraim.com That's S A R A I M.com. We'll put connections to that at our website cancer and comedy.com. It's a pleasure to have you with us what a fascinating story is. Sara Im our guest today on the cancer and comedy podcast