The Queen of Denial: Cancer Musical Theater and Other Chronic Illnesses” with Edward Miskie

Dr. Brad Miller 0:00

He's the author of the book cancer, musical theater, and other chronic illnesses. His name is Edward Miskie. You can find him at edwardmiskie.com. And he is our guest today, Edward, welcome to Cancer and Comedy.

Edward Miskie 0:15

Dr. Brad, thank you for having me.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:18

It is indeed an honor and a privilege, my friend, I have gotten to know you a little bit. Here are some things I know about you. You are incredibly talented but with a guy with a lot of energy and a lot of vibrancy. But we're talking today about a time when a lot of that kind of took a hit 10 years or so ago. So let's talk a little bit about but tell us your story a little bit, my friend, I'll spoil

Edward Miskie 0:41

the fun. There's a way to put it. Cancers boiled on my fun. Yeah, so I would say naturally, he'd mentioned I was going around the country doing different productions. At the time I was doing a production of hairspray, this would have been in 2011. And during the run of the show, I started to get this lump under my arm that just kept getting bigger and bigger. And of course, I was like I have a contract to finish I have to finish the show and the show must go on. So I let it grow. And it just got to be about the size of a grapefruit over the course of five months. By the time I finished the show and went back to New York, I had seen my doctor, they sent me for a biopsy. A week later I was in chemo with a diagnosis of a rare and large diffuse B cell brackets like non-Hodgkins lymphoma. So it was like, of course, a mouthful. And of course, it was aggressive. I was indicated by the size of it and rare. There are very few cases of it known in the world. And I got to be the baseline for myself, which was like horrifying. Hey, if anything goes wrong, you're it, kid.

Dr. Brad Miller 1:44

A lot of artists want to be unique and special. But this is not an area. Careful what you wish for Yeah. You had this massive growth under your arm? And I gotta imagine it was painful and uncomfortable. And did you go through the test and so on? What were some of your initial emotional reactions emotionally? When you said that this is real. And this is serious? What was going through your mind in your heart?

Edward Miskie 2:06

Two things first, it was like, I completely shut down, right? I completely shut down. And I wasn't able to really respond the way that you think that someone would until I was checking in to the hospital and I had the full body full brain meltdown at that moment. But up to that point, I was just, of course, this is happening to me it makes total sense that this is what's happening in my life right now. Not that it was expected or that it was something that I was hoping would happen but just like the ridiculousness of it all Yeah. And how ridiculous my life was up until that point was just like, You know what, you're right universe. This is exactly what you had in store for me. I get it. Okay, cool. Got it.

Dr. Brad Miller 2:43

So the kind of absurdity on top of absurdity. And curious here, Edward, did you have that kind of basic outlook on life at that time that if something bad's going to happen is going to happen to me? Was that kind of who you were, or were was just kind of against the grain for what you were?

Edward Miskie 2:57

No, I've always considered myself to be forced, resilient, in a sense, like, and what I mean by that is survived Catholic school for one as like a gay man growing up in central Pennsylvania, like I survived Catholic school. And then I immediately escaped and moved to New York at 18 on my own and made it like, I was doing the thing, like, I had my feet on the ground, and I was alive. I was really counting on that, to get me through this. But when it happened, it wasn't. I think it was the first time that I really felt knocked down. Because like, I had setbacks, of course, and it was just okay, that early 20s energy, that little puppy energy where you're like, Okay, fine, cool setback, I'll figure it out. It's fine. And I still do have that thing, thankfully. But I think getting that diagnosis was the first time at the moment that I was like, Oh, this isn't just a setback. This is dangerous and could be really bad.

Dr. Brad Miller 3:45

So I like your your Cleopatra Quinta denial thing for a while and

Edward Miskie 3:48

Oh, yeah, I'm always a queen. Or not. That's how I get through life as being a queen in denial.

Dr. Brad Miller 3:58

You have to have a moment of denial. And just to just Whoa, this is more than a just used-to kind of physical illness, I guess is more than a cold or the flu or even something more serious. In some regards, that you see, you can recover from, you know, that you got to do something about this. And so you had to deal with all the medical stuff you had to deal with. And that was quite an ordeal in and of itself, was it not?

Edward Miskie 4:24

It absolutely was and what you're talking about, and please, for the love of God call this episode cleaning. But that denial, I think is what got me through it. Like I have a sign in front of my in front of my desk here that says be delusional, and it is that delusion of having to be like I'm fine. Everything's gonna be great and just like letting cancer exist, but then charge forward with your life as though nothing was happening. And I did that as best as I could, even when I was told I shouldn't which in the end.

Dr. Brad Miller 4:54

One of the ways you're looking at it and Edward is another option opposing you think of the denial thing as a coping. Actors are to just flat out, give up from the onset. There are people who do that, get bad news and forget it, pull the sheets up, and say it's over with.

Edward Miskie 5:08

And I think that's a natural response. And I certainly am not trying to say that I didn't have that moment, there were definitely moments where I was just like laying in bed under the covers, like staring at the ceiling. Is this what I was 2425 at the time? And it was just like, is this really all I was putting here for what in the world? And I had those moments a couple of times throughout. And I don't know I talk very lightly about this. And I do try to make light of it as much as possible because of the ridiculous experience. But I certainly had the moments where I was like, what is happening is this and I remember having a very specific conversation with my friend Jordan. I was hospitalized because I was just living my life and cancer was along for the ride. I went down to Florida to visit my sister and got the ocean and went swimming, which you shouldn't do if you don't have an immune system because the ocean is disgusting. And I came back with a parasite, like a very dangerous parasite. And so I lost 15 pounds in four days, and I looked amazing. Give me that parasite again. But I was talking to my friend Jordan, who was there with me in the hospital. And I was like, is this it? Because again, it was ridiculous on top of the ridiculous I already had this insane cancer. And then I got a parasite from the ocean, like stupid and totally avoidable, and of my own stupid doing. And so is this conversation or is like, this is what's going to take me out, isn't it?

Dr. Brad Miller 6:31

But you had a pretty serious medical situation your life was indeed threatened as a young man in your 20s Was it not?

Edward Miskie 6:38

Yeah, it absolutely was we had There was a moment with my oncologist when I asked to see her when she met me in the lobby of the hospital. And I just was like, this isn't going well. Can you please level with me and tell me what's really going on? And the answer wasn't, this is the end, you're gonna die. But it was very much. We don't really know what to do. Everything we're trying so far has not worked. I think this was like three rounds of chemo. And I looked like death. It was terrible. But somehow I was still able to get around on my own because I was not a sick person. And I was going to do it. Cancer was along on my journey. What am I going to do, something had to change everything that we're all collectively experiencing it's funny to watch again, because I've been through this already in a way where it wasn't a pandemic globally, but it was a version of a pandemic within myself to draw that parallel to COVID. Like I had done quarantine while I was in my stem cell transplant, I got to leave a hospital room, everyone around me had to wear masks, gowns, gloves, the little booty things, the caps, like everything, and, and being in that room for a month without being able to leave or move like one COVID happened. I was like, I got this. I've done this already. I'm good. And I had a great time. Because I already knew what to do. The kind of the reason why I wrote my book in the first place is what you're talking about and coming out of it and losing a job not understanding reality anymore. Like how do I feel about the people around me because I had a second to sit back and be like, wait a minute, maybe this isn't the life that I thought I wanted? Maybe this isn't exactly where I thought my path was going to take me. And now I have the brain space, the time, and the bandwidth to figure that out. And that's exactly what surviving anything traumatic is. Because you do have a moment to sit back and be like, hang on a second. Am I the person I want to be? Am I doing what I want to do? Am I becoming the adult and the thing that I want to be in the end.

Dr. Brad Miller 8:29

You start to shift a little bit from what okay, this is happening to me. And I have no control to sensing that. Okay, this is happening to me. But here's how I'm going to react to it. Here's I'm going to respond to it. And here's what I'm going to do about it. Was there a shift in how you thought about things there?

Edward Miskie 8:44

Yeah, it's that but over and over and over and over again, like on a regular basis. And that's true with life anyway, because life is constantly changing. We are constantly changing, and it's how we adapt and or don't adapt to either any of those changes. That is really the important part. In my specific circumstances. I went from having a very promising career to being an a very attractive 24 year old to being like a bloated toad in a hospital gown being told that maybe this is it was definitely like this moment that was very shaking, that forces you to take a look around and be like, Okay, hang on a minute, this isn't. If this was the end, I would not be happy. And so then taking the reins of that and deciding where to drive and how hard and how long and I wish that I would have figured that out sooner. Because I spent very many years after I was told I was cancer free, like floundering and trying to figure out and navigate why I felt the way I felt.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:41

Let's go with that. You've said the phrase taking the reins, and you had to still navigate that and figure that out. What do you think are some of the Oh couple of ways that you did take the reins to help you to navigate this and get to a better place that you're at now.

Edward Miskie 9:55

First and foremost. It was what I was saying about how cancer was along on the journey with me and now Me being dragged around by cancer and it like you said, it's very easy to let that happen. And it was just this conscious decision that I made that I was like, I don't want to be a sick person, I don't want to behave like one, I don't want to be viewed as one. And so to me finding that personal inner strength to get up and go outside, and I live in a big city, so it's very walkable. And so take long walks, go places that I would normally go and just try and be a person. Because you have so little of that allowance while you're a patient. And being a patient. You're not a person. I say this all the time, like hospitals, especially teaching hospitals tend to treat you and or view you as though you're a science project is because it is the practice of medicine, and they forget the humanizing part of it. Yes. Which is another reason why I wrote this book. And so that was part of that that was really like making the conscious decision to behave as as if though I were a normal person who did not have cancer. And so that certainly had its setbacks, see parasite conversation. And so like, maybe proceed with a little more caution than I did. But the other part of that too, is once you're told that you're cancer free, and or that you're good to go for a while, like whatever that language is, like, you're it's not a matter of taking the reins, it's having the reins shoved at you, and being like, have fun. Good luck.

Go for it. Yeah. 10.

Yeah. And then you have to decide from there what to do. And it's, it can be wonderful. And I wish that I would have had that perspective a little bit more back then because it is scary, you're going you're walking through darkness, you have no idea what's coming, and there's panic at every turn, because you think it's going to come back, every little bruise, and cut and scrape and cough, you're like, Ah, I'm gonna have to go back to the hospital, which is the last place you were

World of the hospital with wonderful gowns that you get to wear and needles and bells and whistles and Dangs and doctors and teach in all the equipment and everything going on. That's that and there's some way it's a weird existence, and you can't get used to it. But then you got to go out and you got to face the world. And you got to deal with it. And you've found some ways to deal with it.

The weird part is that you do get used to it. And that's humans are so resilient anyway, regardless, you just adapt to it. And that was so wild to me that when it was over, I missed it. And I it's not that I wanted to go back to the hospital. But it was like, I missed the feeling of being watched and taken care of, and cared for. And having a schedule and having the sense that there was something to do that day, even if it was getting inundated with drugs. It was still like this structure that felt nice, then you'd like it's a routine and in a way and you adapt to it. And it's great until it's gone. And then you're like, wait a minute, I missed that. But I shouldn't and why

someone else I talked to a medical weird analogy may relate to a long hospital stay, and getting out to some what some people might experience being in prison or jail for a while. And that structure environment getting out and trying to face face to face to worry about something else here, Edward, you absolutely grew up Catholic, and there was certain manifestations of that which were not so good. But I'm curious, what role if any, did some sort of have a sense of something greater than itself or a spiritual element? What role if any, did that play in this whole navigation process? For you?

I think if I felt as if though, there was something like that beforehand, I didn't, during and after. And I think what it really made me do was default back to what I've always believed in, and I'll make the I'll make the point. But I want to tell you a funny little story. Having gone up having grown up and gone to Catholic school my whole life, there was this horrible religion teacher, and I won't get into the details of that. But there was a day in class that I specifically remember she was discussing and painting the picture of other versions of religion and spirituality, that were evil and bad because they weren't Catholic. And one of them was secular humanism. And I was like, and she explained it in a sense that it's the belief that we're idolization of human beings and mortals and I was like, What's so bad about that we all need people to look up to and to love and to aspire to. And I asked that question, and she didn't really answer, satisfactorily. Of course not. Because why would she? But that has always stuck with me the idea of secular humanism. And so to answer your question more directly, during this period of time, where I didn't really feel as if though there was a higher power greater good, whatever you want to call it. And that has since changed for me in a way, but I became much more entrenched in my love for my family and my friends and the people around me who supported me and lifted me up and were there for me during that period of time, and it really just doubled down on the secular humanism thing where it's like, watching my mom navigate her way through the hospital because she works in medical anyway. And the paperwork and the bills and the notes and the treatments and the drugs and the medication and the protocols, it was just like you are an amazing human being. And it just made me put her up on a higher pedestal than she already was. Same with my dad, the back and forth all the time on the train coming to the hospital to stay with me and make sure that there was a human being in my room. So in case anything would happen, or just because like also higher pedestal. And so to that point like that, to me is secular humanism. And that is what I really found kind of comfort in, like the doubling down on the love of my family and friends around

with your folks and other than your friends, did it evolve and change and go deeper? Or what role did it really play in your healing or your process of emerging on your cancer?

Truthfully, it was the role. I don't think there was another one, my parents were there every step of the way, I had friends rotating in and out of my room at all times. And I didn't really tell anybody that I had cancer in the first place. It was my family and my closest friends. And so I had this little small handful of friends that just were already close with me, but really got close with me and during that period of time. And it was family and chosen family and you can't do better than that. And I call my I call my parents every day, I call my parents every night we talk and we catch up even like mundane, dumb stuff. Right around right after dinner time. Like we we talk every night

for many people, it evolves a different way. And and I would hope that you might even consider in a way your cancer became a little bit of a gift to your relationship to with your parents, that you have a deeper level there.

Maybe not specifically to my parents. But I think in general, and this was going to hit hit warning, this is going to hit the wrong way for some people. But for me where I'm at right now, in hindsight, cancer is the best thing that could have ever happened to me. Even though it was a huge, insurmountable mountain to climb, multiple careers, I've had the book, everything that's going on with my book, none of that would have happened if it weren't for cancer. And those were I

love the way you put that in. And for many people, when you have a dramatic, traumatic experience, you can go one of the other way you could go down with the ship, so to speak, or you can see it as a turning point or a reflection point. And it seems to me that this is the catalyst as you say, and part of the manifestation of that was writing your book. The title is Cancer, musical theater and other chronic illnesses. Love the title man love it. And it's got to tell your story. Why did you write this book, tell me about the book and how this kind of manifest is.

first and foremost, say that I cannot take credit for the title my friend Alex, who is one of the people who is there for me all the time, he came up with that on a whim. But while we were talking one day, and I was like, but actually what ended up being the sticking point was what we were talking about earlier of having this very cloudy UNMISS directed understanding of getting through your life after the fact. And I think this is one thing that people are not always privy to when they go through something traumatic like this, I had the privilege of being able to go to stupid cancers like cancer con, they have this like online, kind of like conference thing with different events and speakers, and whatnot. And the first night that I was there, there were so many people talking about all of the reasons why I wrote this book. And it just was so uplifting and validating because I feel sometimes I talk about this stuff in a vacuum. And I don't get to hear often from people that are like, I felt the same way, because that's what got me to write the book I had met, I had met someone who had articulated to me how they felt they had just found that they were cancer free like three months prior to me meeting them. And we had a conversation about it and everything he said, I was like, oh, that's what the last three years of my life have been. Okay, this can't be just the two of us. And so I reached out to two or three other friends of mine who had versions of cancers different very, very into cancer. And I asked them the same questions that he and I talked about, what was it like for you coming out? Was it harder? Was it difficult to navigate? What was the after care feeling? What was that? Like? What were all the things that you had to do or felt misplaced in and it was just one aha moment after another and I was like,

and you're no longer against us. You had some connection as a community with others.

And to your point about not wanting to like wallow in the woe is me of cancer. Like I avoided going to a lot of support groups or things like cancer cons and I don't even know that existed back then. But I avoided going to things like that because they tend they do tend to be the people who are curled up in a ball and are very, like, I don't know what to do. Okay, well make a decision and I like results and I like action taking. And I like solutions. And so that kind of stuff just didn't really feel like it was a good fit for me but being able to talk to these people and and gather that information in a way that I was able to write this book about the process. And then after the fact, and just being so lost and having no idea, I think I compare it to being Little Red Riding Hood in the woods, where you're just like, where am I going.

And I love that you put into a correlation here, with musical theater and things like that, which the whole purpose of this is just my take on it as a consumer of musical theater, is that the idea is to have a little bit of escapism, to have some fun to hear some great songs, to see some great acting and to just escape for a little while. And so tell me about the correlation between musical theater and dealing with cancer.

What we were talking about earlier, the ridiculous upon the ridiculous what is more ridiculous than a musical, right. That's why I got into it because it's fun. And on top of that, beyond the fun and the ridiculous, there are lessons to learn within the text of either the script or the songs and there's always life lessons somewhere in there to learn. They may not be obvious, sometimes they're subliminal Sondheim is brilliant at giving you those in both ways. I wanted to write this book for that purpose for that same kind of formatting, where it's fun, it's flashy, and there's a lot going on. It's very heightened, and ridiculous and insane. But then you also have, like the story of what's happening, and that kind of tie up in the in a bow lesson at the end of each part. And so in writing this book, I made each chapter a little show of its own, by by using and framing it in other musicals. And it was just it like, it was really in short, it's what we were talking about earlier, which is the ridiculous on the ridiculous

musical, you know, is bigger than life. I know one of the ones you were in was Mamma Mia. And I kept thinking about that, because I'm a child of the 70s. My man, I was a disc jockey in the 70s other radio, when the Mamma Mia and dancing queen and all that kind of stuff was on. And so when that musical came, I've seen that musical in person in the movies, I think in person three times. And so I saw that that's how the story came together, all these different pieces there. But how the absurdity came a true story, a real life story. And it's a lot of fun, a lot of fun. So

and nothing is more absurd than the book of Mamma Mia and the music of Abba. I grew up listening to Abba gold. That was one of my favorite albums. Waterloo will always be it but yeah, I've done Mamma Mia twice.

The movie and I would have never thought when I was spinning that record, which we used to have records back in the day back in the 70s that would somehow come out to some story that was moving emotionally. And you brought that together in your book here and that's because with a real life drama that's played out

but to drive the point home of the ridiculous on ridiculous. It's about this woman who's slept around, right? She doesn't know who the father

But that's real life. Real life man for a lot of folks.

Speaker 2 22:58

No, totally it but it really does compound the ridiculous on ridiculous. And I think it's so funny.

Sometimes things come around Edward that you just go, man, good things start to happen to when you spied you get your attitude together about it. And among other things are happening with you, it looks like your book may somehow be adapted or rewritten for a television show or series or possible production. Tell us more about that. How that's evolved in came about

full transparency. I wrote this book in through the lens of Rob Ashford, who's a brilliant director. He's the director that he's the film director that directed the Chicago movie musical. And so in writing this book, in my head, it was always just like, a flash out of reality into a production number. And so that was the scope that I was writing this book on. And it was never, I think it was always intended for screen. I wanted the book first to be able to adapt it but the script is about halfway done. There's some music in the works. And I'm really hoping to be in pre production by fall and it's just going to be so ridiculous and funny and I can't wait.

I'd like for you to think about and begin to think about an episode in your whole process of the cancer journey to where you're at now. When you just thought this is just flat out funny or I like to do well at Terminus tried to grab into a grin. It was an episode or an anecdote that you might recall where you thought okay, just just laugh out loud funny.

I had a stem cell transplant and I was my own donor I gave them I donated my own stem cells to myself, they take them out they treat them they pump them back into you and that is after a very long like I think a seven day constant drip of the highest level of chemo they can give you until you're dead and then they just watch your numbers tank into zero and then once it's zero then you get your stem cell infusion and you know your body graphs it and rebuilds and goes back when their sciences insane during this period of time. My mom was there. On this particular day I think it was like three days after or the actual infusion itself. And I'm lying on the couch in my room, which was like this big fake tan leather couch. Because the beds are horribly uncomfortable, and I refuse to sleep in them. So I only slept on this couch. And I'm just laying there on my phone. And all of a sudden, I started to not feel very well. And I had been warned ahead of time that like, you're not going to make it to the bathroom, like it's just going to happen, and you need to be okay with it. And that never happened for me ever, in that period of time, which I was very confused about, because everyone was assuring me that it would 100% was going to happen. Instead, what happened is I just looked at my mom and I was like, I think I'm going to be sick, which like I only threw up maybe three times throughout the entirety of chemo didn't affect it didn't affect me for some reason. But I said to her, I was like, I'm going to be sick. And so she tore into the bathroom and got one of those basins and put it on the floor next to the sofa. And I just rolled over. And as I did this, like green, like literally the color of my couch behind me right here, this floor like this emerald green liquid with nothing else in it. It was just as clear emerald green, oh my gosh, came out came out of me and not only filled the basin, but like I needed another one. And it was so alarming. I was like why is the Emerald City coming out of my body? What is happening? We called it a nurse. And the nurse comes in and we're thinking that they're going to be like, oh my god Hall someone do a thing we need to enter was like, oh, yeah, that's normal. And she just came over and she like, picked it up and dumped it in the toilet and wash it. And then she came out and and basically just told me that because there was a good sign that the graph is working. Because what it does is it kills off your music member mucous membrane from your mouth to your bed. And it completely kills it off, destroys it. And then it has to come out somewhere. And it just decided to come out through my mouth,

you thought you're having an alien coming out of yourself that and you are

curious baseball, and just sitting there and laughter they told us that my mom just looked at me. It just started out. Like, because it was again, the ridiculous it was like what is going on? I didn't think about it could hold that much liquid. And here it is.

You kind of laugh at some of this stuff, don't you, you just got to what we're really about here on cancer and comedy is learning from people like you who have had this journey, and are still here and say, but I'm not giving up. I'm still going. I'm still after it. And you are still are an incredibly creative person. We've just talked to you about your writing and your musical theater, but you also are a musician and producer and so on voiceovers and things like that credible, you've got a gift to the world. And we want to keep that going. We want to keep that going. And hopefully we'll see your television program here before too long. But I gotta feel it, Edward, there's folks out there who are hearing your voice and my voice here today are thinking okay, there's something here that I need to learn more about. So if folks want to learn more about you your book, or your website or anything, that all the opportunities they have to be touched by you. How can they find out more about you, Edward?

Speaker 2 28:11

I'm all over the social medias at Edward Meskie on everything, Twitter, Tiktok, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, all of it. I just launched a podcast called How to be a big deal, which is on YouTube and Apple podcasts. There's edwardmiskie.com. My book is available at Barnes & Noble and Apple books and Walmart and Amazon and all of the places. And if you're in New York City, please go to the drama book shop and buy a copy there because I love supporting small businesses and myself.

I was gonna leave it at this what good word what would you share with a person, especially a younger person, you are 25 when this all happened to you.

Be stubborn, stick up for yourself, be stubborn with yourself. And I think that stubbornness is really what kind of got me through it because I made myself be physically active and I made myself do things and that was making myself do things that I didn't feel like doing. Eating was one of them. I can't tell you how much I forced fed myself during that whole thing because I knew I had to. And so I would just say be a stickler for yourself. Advocate for yourself and be stubborn and make yourself do the things.

It goes back to our part of our initial conversation. Don't let cancer happen to you. You are how you were having a life and cancers along for the ride. You take control. Exactly. Awesome. Awesome. His name is Edward Miskie. And he's edwardmiskie.com. And we'll put links to everything he's about at our website cancer and comedy.com with Dr. Brad Miller. Fascinating guests love to have you with us get the book which is cancer, musical theater and other chronic illnesses. Our guest today on Cancer and Comedy. Edward Miskie Thanks for being our guest today my friend.