Living Fully: Bucket Lists for Cancer Fighters and Thrivers

Hey there, lifter uppers. I'm Deb Krier, the co-host of Cancer and Comedy, where our mission is to heal cancer-impacted people through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin. Well, today on Cancer and Comedy, we're going to be talking about bucket lists, you know, the purpose of a bucket list and how to create one as a way to cope with cancer. Now, here's the host of Cancer and Comedy, Dr. Brad Miller.

Hey, thank you, Deb. It's always a pleasure and a privilege to be with you. You always bring a smile to my face when I see you because you've got such great energy. And you can always speak to these topics with such a great perspective on things, and I appreciate it. What we are all about is taking something grim like cancer and seeing it in a different perspective. We like to call it turning the grim into a grin. So we can celebrate life and whatever we have left, whether it's short-term or long-term. When we deal with cancer, it makes us think a little bit about how much time we have. So that's what we're doing here today, to live in a conversation about what to do with whatever time we have left, whether it's a short time or a long time.

We are all about developing a community here, a community of like-minded people who are using every tool that we can to help ourselves and other people to face cancer, to cope with cancer, and to cope with hope. We're here to help people get connected, and we hope people will do that in our community. You can start by just going to our website, cancerandcomedy.com/follow. We'd like to have fun here. Deb, how about a couple of dad jokes? I know I've been waiting all week. How do you cook an alligator?

I don't know.

In a crockpot.

Of course.

Well, one more. Why do seagulls fly over the sea?

I don't know.

Because if seagulls flew over a bay, they would be bagels.

Bagels. Yay. I love it. I love it. Well, if you're a longtime listener, you know that we're going to have another Dr. Brad's Bad Joke of the Day after our discussion. And of course, our very important Faith It or Break It segment. As we mentioned, we would love for you to be part of the Cancer and Comedy community, where together we crush cancer with a message of how to cope with hope and humor. Please follow Cancer and Comedy at cancerandcomedy.com/follow.

Well, today we're going to be talking about bucket lists. You know, there was a movie about it. We've all kind of heard about it. It's the thing you write before we kick the bucket. And so I think it's very important for us to really discuss this. But you know, my first question for you is, do you have your own bucket list, Dr. Brad?

Indeed, I do. In fact, in preparing for this, I kind of reworked some of it a little bit, thought through why I have a bucket list, how I prepared one, and what some of the motivating factors were in doing just that. I have been thinking a lot about this because I was able to tick off a couple of items on my bucket list here just recently, and I'll get into some of the reasons why.

My wife and I took a long vacation on the West Coast to Oregon and Washington. One of my bucket list things is to visit all 50 states. So I was able to tick off a couple more states; I'd never been to North Dakota before, so I ended up in North Dakota. I don't think I've ever been to Nebraska before either, and on this trip, I went through those states. That was a lot of fun. Also, we have, kind of in our mutual bucket list, my wife Debbie and I, to eventually visit all the national parks. I think there are 64 of them, and I think we hit five of them on this trip. I think we've got maybe half of them accomplished. So that was something that we did there as a part of that.

But you know, to get back to your question here, Deb, I really want to explore a little bit of why you have a bucket list, how you create one. I did just a little bit of research. We use that term "kick the bucket" because that phrase goes back to the kind of revolutionary French times when they would morbidly sometimes hang people they were executing by putting them on a noose and putting them on a bucket and then kicking the bucket. Occasionally, people would commit suicide by standing on a bucket and kicking the bucket out, but it generally means death or to die, kick the bucket.

When I got my diagnosis of cancer a couple of years ago, almost exactly two years ago as we speak now, it woke me up to what I have done in my life, what I have not done, and what I want to do. Although I'd had kind of goal-setting lists in the past, my view of my goals became not just life accomplishment goals, but it kind of had a timeframe on it that I didn't really have before. It kind of had an end date, as it were. In my particular diagnosis of cancer, the doctor told me, "Well, if you don't think about this, you've got two to three years left here." And it was like, okay, that's a pretty short number there.

Of course, some of my goals included all the medical things and that kind of thing to do. Thankfully, I'm in pretty good shape now post-surgery and so on. But it got me to thinking, what to do? Right around that same time, as I was diagnosed, I had lunch or dinner with our two granddaughters, who were very young at the time, about four and two. I just looked at them. I remember having the vision, okay, here are these little girls giggling and laughing and having their Happy Meals, just being little girls and having a lot of fun, no clue whatsoever what I was going through. They don't know what cancer is. I really want to see these two little girls become young women, graduate high school, and do other things, whatever it is, get married, be a couple of young women. So that gave me an idea. This is part of my own bucket list to see my granddaughters grow up.

This is kind of part of what I went through to create, based on the framework I eventually worked out, what are some of the actions I want to take, like visiting the national parks and so on? What are some of the people I want to influence, be a part of their lives, be a part of my wife and my granddaughters and other family members? What are some of the spiritual connections that I want to have, kind of where I want to be spiritually and so on in my life that way? What sort of things do I want to accomplish: writing a book, giving a TED Talk, some things of this nature that I want to do? So it's kind of a "be, do, have" type of thing. I'll unpack some of the other things in more detail on that about having and doing that.

Let me turn the question around to you now, Deb. Do you have a bucket list? If so, how did you arrive at some of that?

You know, I don't, and so, of course, the first thing on my bucket list should be to create a bucket list. When I thought about it, because without formally making the "I want to do this" type of thing, it's more just in general, what do we want to do? One of the things that I have told my husband is once a month, I want to go on an adventure. Maybe it's just a drive, maybe it's something bigger, maybe it's go to a museum, something like that, but once a month, I want to do something like that. And then bigger things too, your goals that you want to meet.

But it was so interesting when I was looking at some of the material that you sent. There's obviously lots and lots of things about bucket lists. But one of the things that really struck me is I think sometimes we think a bucket list has to be big, grandiose things, right? A trip around the world, cure cancer, you know, things like that. It doesn't have to be. It can be something as simple as reading this book, going to that museum, calling an old friend you haven't talked to, those things that we think, gee, we really should do but we put off. I think making the bucket list and making it a formal list makes it real for us, and then we think, you know, I really need to do this.

Committed to paper, committed to that. The other day was my birthday last week, and I had people on my Facebook thing, and about 100 people messaged me, some from my elementary school days, people I knew in high school, and I wondered, okay, how many people, what would happen if I really, you know, some of these people, other than a Facebook friendship thing, I've really not had a conversation with in some cases, decades. Would it be kind of cool to reach out to those people and see if we could just catch up a little bit, right? Just think that through. I kind of call these things the kind of things that light you up or kind of give your heart a little bit of a rush, right? Energize you.

Cancer is a thing that kind of demoralizes and de-energizes you. We were just talking today about how when you're sick or you're not feeling good or you've recently had some procedures done, it can drain you. But if you have something to live for, maybe that's a good thing. You mentioned some of the little things that can be done. What do you think motivates people to do things that they may have put off when they get something like a cancer diagnosis? What do you think motivates them to do something that they may not have done before or put off, to actually get it done? What kind of dynamic is going on there?

I think it is knowing that your expiration date may have changed. We don't want our headstones to read "I wish I could have," right? When we come to grips with our own mortality, it really does make us think through a lot of things and realize, you know, maybe there are things that 20 years ago we would have thought were absolutely critical, and now we're like, meh. We rethink our priorities, I think. We really do. When we're facing something that can be catastrophic, we think, okay, what is really important to us? Maybe the big grandiose things go away. We realize, okay, maybe it's not so important that we do the round-the-world cruise, but maybe it is important that we reconnect with our childhood classmates.

I think, yeah. Every connection, that emotional thing, what gets you emoting, right, and what is the emotional part of it. Sometimes it's a thing. What I mean by that is, I still lust after having a Mustang. I'm not sure when I'll get that, though. My wife is different.

Maybe you can go for a ride in a classic model.

Or whatever, but you get the idea. I still want the real thing. But you know, I still have that kind of less thing going on about a Mustang, but, you know, going to be, but it's in comparison to if it's been tweeting between that and having a vacation trip with my entire family once a year, where I'm able to, if I was able to help pave the way for my family to get together on some vacation rental someplace. That's much higher priority, yes. Then to spend, you know, whatever, 20 grand on a vacation for my old family, rather than a down payment on a Mustang or whatever it would be. It puts things in perspective a little bit. I think so. Right. What do you want? What did you learn from some of the material that we looked at? What do you learn from that?

You know, again, that it's just important to do it. You know, there was an article that you sent me that they talk about the steps and, you know, there's all sorts of different places where we can find that. But one of the first things is like we said, you've got to create your list. And the real true first step is to create it with no boundaries. No "if I can win a million dollars, I will do" or all of those things. It's "what could I, you know, if I could do anything, what would I do?" You know? And I think that was interesting to be able to do that. You know, and it's funny because, you know, I'm looking at the example of this person, and she's got such a variety of things in here. Go to a drive-in movie, be a redhead. Okay, got that one. Make homemade pasta, visit every continent. That's a pretty big grandiose one. I love this one: go to a nude beach and be nude. No, no, no.

Not gonna be your thing?

No, no, no. But she says, you know, visit all 50 states. I'm down to one. I just have one I have to visit, and so Hawaii would be on my list. But, you know, it is about that. And, you know, it was also interesting because the various speakers and things talk about you can include business things on here too. You know, it doesn't just have to be personal because, as you mentioned, it's things that make your heart kind of soar. And, you know, soar as in eagles flying soar.

Right?

Maybe it is, you know, you said a TED talk. You're winning an award, get a big client, and those are okay things, absolutely.

I think you kind of have to categorize what I like to do and think about it in categories, things in various aspects of your life. All the, I believe, emotion will go through all of those in some regard. But some are more aspirational, some are more relational types of things. Relational ones are family, and that kind of things. Some are spiritual, that kind of thing as well.

Certainly. I've seen somebody's bucket list and said, read the entire Bible.

Right. And I've done that. I have done that in the past. And so that's on my bucket list now. I've done it. Actually, I used to do it every year. But I do have forces to do, I want to do a TED talk, not just to do a TED talk, but for a purpose. Because I really want to be a person who can be considered an impactful person. And basically what you and I are doing, which is helping coach and guide people in the area of coping with cancer and other debilitating diseases, to help find a way, you know, to get that. And I want to develop a TED talk and discuss interests that may have that in mind. And then, therefore, that leads me to potential to some of my other aspirations that have to do with interconnect per family. I want to, I have a certain amount of money I want to gift all three of my children at a certain point in their life, that would be life-changing for them. I want to just kind of surprise them with like, 100 grand.

Down payment on your house, whatever.

Would be some significant amount of money that would help get them over a hump of some sort at a surprising time in life for them. And, for me, I don't want to, but I see these other things, maybe the picture to do that. So I've got these things as well. And so the way I've done it, for me, and I think there's some learning that can be done here, is to try to take my own personal values and my own personal wants and needs and categorize them in the process I call the X plan. And the I've used it in several things I write and work on. The word and the word X, ACTA is the word at the A and the word X stands for actions. And so for me, those actions include visiting all 50 states, travel, some things regarding my physical health, some things of that nature, some of the stuff, you know, the Mustang, you know, what have you. So the vacation home, and those kinds of things are kind of the action because they've been being engaged actively. And then the C in the word acts is to connect. And this has to do with my own spirituality and peace of mind. It includes things like journaling, and trying to be God's man, this type of thing. And it also then has a relationship and overlap with family and other things too. And then the T in the word X stands for thinking strategically. That's kind of the business part of this is the cognitive part. That's the TED talk, that's creating a business that can help sustain a lot of these other things. It's helping, you know, when we're, you and I get together, do a podcast or work on some project. And so how can this really serve somebody else, and how to get it done. And also, I've got some things on the list that way. And then the S in the word X is to serve others with love. And that's the family stuff. And that's how I believe that, you know, I really want to serve like, I want to really serve 100 people directly with a message of coping with hope. And then I also want to train up 100 coaches to help to carry that message on. But it's serving others with love to sustain all that stuff. So that's how I've been kind of categorizing this type of thing here. And I basically rebuilt my list here kind of long. On that way, give me your reaction to that. Is that one methodology?

Well, and of course, everybody's bucket list, they're gonna go about it in a different way. But I think it is very important to include what you did with serving others, you know, because again, we're feeding our souls. And however, we're, you know, we're serving others, I think is very worthy and worthwhile. And we forget that maybe that's something we should be putting on the bucket list. And again, it can be something as simple as volunteering for a youth camp, or, you know, whatever it is. But, you know, I think that the goal is that when we finish the bucket list, and of course, the key is that we don't finish, right, we just keep adding to it. But when you're when the when that that proverbial bucket gets kicked, yes, we go. Wow.

Look what we did. Yeah. And also, I think it's a part of a legacy comes into play here. And then we want to, I'll speak for myself here, primarily, but I think part of a bucket list has to do with things that not only give us a bit of a thrill, but maybe something people can remember us by, in some regard, you know. I want to be known as the grandfather to my grandchildren who they can laugh and giggle with, but maybe learn a little something from as well. And I can't really do that if I'm not around. But I want them to see that. And I want to be able to have that emphasis where, you know, I appreciate a lot of sermons for funerals in my life. And those are always meaningful times to me, because almost everybody's talking about the legacy of the person that they are talking about when he passed away. But, you know, very few people said anything like, "Oh, Marvin, he spent a lot of time in the office. That was great about it." No, they talked about how he would be with family or friends, or maybe he, you know, had a hobby where he carved wooden toys for kids or something unique about them, how that was a part of their life. And then we'll say things about how they, you know, how they, if they invested.

Say you were a workaholic? Or you don't, right?

Or, you know, hey, here with the biggest boat in town or whatever. There's a lot they used to say you never see a hearse having a U-Haul behind it. You can't take it with you. So these are some of the things that I think. But I was interested, Deb, I looked up a couple of kind of bucket list type of things for a couple of well-known people. One is Bill Gates. And two of the three things on his list were to eradicate polio worldwide, to develop breakthrough clean energy technology, and to visit every country in Africa. And so those are all things not much about his own grandiosity; it's about how he can serve other people. And I just thought that was cool too. And then Jane Goodall, you know, she was the one who studied the chimpanzees, and so on. And one of hers was to plant 5 million trees, to establish sanctuaries for chimpanzees in several African countries, and give a TED talk about conservation. Again, it's about serving others. That they said were some of their top priorities and that type of thing. So what do you think are some, maybe some encouragement or some little bit of direction we might give to a person who has had this kind of shocking moment? You know, they've got the diagnosis of cancer, maybe they do have, you know, a short time left, maybe they are just trying to sort it all out because it's so shocking. What are some directions, some guidance that we might give them? And how to approach this?

Right? Well, I think that the thing about a bucket list is it's positive, and it's future-looking. You know, and now, it can be things like get rid of the toxic people in my life. Ah, yes. Right. But it's, you know, I think it is, what can we do? And one of the videos that you sent was a young man, whose best friend, and they look like they were in their 20s, right? It has terminal cancer. And so what were they doing? Some of the things might not be something they were gonna be able to do, but, you know, what would you do? And, Eli, I think we all kind of think, you know, what, if I were to die tomorrow, that is an option. Right? You never know. My mother died very suddenly. She was fine on Tuesday, gone on Wednesday. But, you know, so, again, what do you want your legacy to be? You know, and depending on what's going on, you know, maybe your bucket list is smaller, you know, because it might just be things that you can do fairly easily, things like that. But think about what are the things that you want to get done? You know, and one of the things is your work with others. You know, I have a buddy, a buddy bucket list.

That movie, that bucket list from with Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman from some time ago, is basically a couple of buddies having fun with their bucket list. Wasn't that the basic theme of that movie? I need to go back and watch it again.

I've never seen it so I need to watch it.

I think it's well worthwhile. They basically have a lot of fun together. And I think that's a part of what we're talking about here is to enjoy your life.

Right. A lot of things off. I think that really is the thing. You know, we need to stop thinking "in 20 years, I'll do X." Now, you know, those things can still be on the bucket list. But what about the in-between 20 years?

Well, one of the things I'm really happy about that my wife and I did while our kids were growing up is that we took several big, long vacations out west and to other places. My three kids all enjoy traveling and exploring new things. At the time, I remember having those discussions about the cost and whether we really wanted to do it, but we went ahead because experience matters. One of the things I want to do, but my wife doesn't want me to, is go skydiving. It's been said, "Well, it costs $500 to go skydiving." Yeah, but it's skydiving.

It'd be $1,000.

Whatever the number is, the idea is the experience. You have to choose the experience and not put things off forever. Just do them. My wife and I took a trip out west this summer because we hadn't driven that long a trip in a long time. It was a lot of fun, and you experience things that you can't otherwise. There's a couple of country music songs based on the line, "You'll live until you die." One of my favorite artists, John Mellencamp, has a song called "Your Life is Now" about experiencing life now. When we get a diagnosis of cancer or something like that, it wakes us up to what we've done, where we are, and where we're going. We have to be mindful of whatever's going on with us health-wise. If we're in chemo, we're not going to be climbing a mountain like Kilimanjaro, but maybe we're watching a movie about it. But we're doing something—engaging the brain, having the experience, or taking that drive or adventure. You mentioned having adventures with your husband.

Yes, we do. Some of them have been pretty easy to do, and others are like day trips or something bigger, like an entire weekend.

Go and do what you can. I think that's so important. In fact, I used to have a phrase, it was kind of a working title for what we were doing here: "Drop Dead Alive." It just came to me that I want to live to the fullest until my last day. You mentioned your mother being in good spirits and pretty energized until her last day. I think that's what a lot of us want to do—really live our lives, not put them on hold until we're gone. Whether it's tomorrow or five years from now, whatever. Cancer brings that finality into focus. Before you go on a trip, you usually get a lot more done in the days before. There's something to be said for that. I think there are two or three things we need to keep in mind. One of them is to do it. I would encourage you, Deb, to do it. Write a couple of things down on paper and maybe have a conversation with your husband about them. Consider what you're currently passionate about that you may have acted on to some degree but want to go deeper with. Allow yourself to be stretched a little. Don't constrain yourself by time, location, or money too much. Just dream a little and see what you can do. Then prioritize and put them together. How can you use those to help other people? If what you've shared from some other folks is helpful, great. If the plan I laid out is great, we can be helpful to you. The idea is to have fun and do what you can, whether you have one day left to live or many years. Don't hold back.

Right, kind of like Tim McGraw says, "Live like you were dying."

Live like you're dying. Thank you, that's the song I was thinking of. It sounds like you're pretty familiar with that song. There's a lyric in the middle that's really touching. How does it go? I know it's "Live like you were dying," but there are some really touching parts. I have to look it up. There are several songs like that and books and things. When people have had trouble or an analysis like this, it helps get them focused. So that's good. But what would be our word of encouragement here today to our listeners as we close our conversation, Deb? What would be your encouragement to people?

You know, I'm going to say the old Nike saying, "Just do it."

Just do it. That is awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for a great discussion. Just do it. Build your bucket list. And just like Tim McGraw said—

"Live like you were dying." I love it. This has been such a great discussion, and I look forward to hearing what other people have thought about this. As I said before, don't say I didn't warn you. We do have another Dr. Brad's Bad Joke of the Day.