Jim Gaffigan on Comedy and Cancer: Turning Grim into Grins

Hey there, lifter uppers. I'm Deb Krier the Co-Host of Cancer and Comedy,

where our mission is to heal cancer impacted people

through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin.

What today we're going to talk about how a big

time professional comedian like Jim Gaffigan approaches cancer and comedy.

Now, here's the host of our cancer and comedy podcast, Dr. Brad Miller.

Hey, Deb, thanks so much for joining me today.

This indeed is the podcast where we look to turn the grammar of cancer into the grin of celebrating life.

We're developing a community of people helping one another, facing cancer to cope with hope.

We're here to get you connected to your cancer and comedy community.

We'd like to create that community. And you can do that by going

to cancerandcomedy.com/follow.

Hey, Deb, how about a couple of dad jokes today?

Oh, I'm ready. I'm ready.

All right. Let me just lay a couple out here. colloquial a couple of them out here for you. Why do cows wear cowbells?

I don't know. Why do cows wear cow bells? Because

their horns don't work? Oh, one more? How do you organize a big event in outer space?

Oh, no, you plan it. Shoot, that's all I got. That's all I got for you right now.

Ah, perfect. I love it. I love it. Well, you know, after our

discussion today, you're going to want to stick around

for Yep, there's another one Dr. Brad's Bad joke of the day.

And of course, our very important Faith It or Break It Segment.

As Brad mentioned, we would love for you to

be part of our cancer and comedy community

where together we crush cancer with a message

of how to cope with hope and humor.

Please follow us at cancerandcomedy.com/follow.

Today, Brad, as I said, we're going to be talking about how a professional comedian like

Jim Gaffigan approaches the sensitive topic of cancer, and talk a bit about

what is appropriate and what might not be appropriate when it

comes to a comedic approach to something as serious as cancer.

But yeah, but I have one of my things I just like to do is kind

of go through YouTube and Netflix and things like that, and just, you know, get get to comedians.

And that's just kind of how I've always just been a fan of comedians.

The late night comedians, Jimmy Fallon is so on. And you know, of course, I,

Johnny Carson growing up and that, you know, was always a fan of not only what they did,

but all the late comedians who would come on and Jerry Seinfeld,

the others, and a fan of that. And of course, now with,

you've got comedy channels on your radio,

and you've got lots of options on YouTube and Netflix and all that type of thing.

But one of my favorites, has always been Jim Gaffigan.

He's generally a clean comedian,

he, you know, a bit more absorbed observation all

about home life and just a lot about his kids and his family.

In his family I enjoyed during the pandemic, he had a daily or pretty much a

Daily Live Show to dinner with a gaffe against where he and his family just sit around.

And literally, you could see them pass and you know,

pass on the spaghetti around whatever it was.

And they just talked about their day. And that's what he did.

During the pandemic, I found myself almost hooked on that.

So buddy, I've always enjoyed his humor. He's also a middle

aged white guy from my part of the he's from

Indiana, and I'm from Indiana. And so we there are some

things to relate to there, I got cut out. But there's another

thing that he and I and you and I have

in common is he deals with cancer. In his life, his wife had very

serious brain cancer, and life threatening and some and went through all the major

medical stuff made many things we've talked about here,

and including major surgery and, and of course,

Jim Gaffigan is a comedian he now has incorporated a little bit

of his family story and a little bit about cancer

into his standup routines. And so you and I were able to just

take a look at one of his shorter, shorter routines having to do

a little bit with with cancer and that's something

we just talked about it a little bit and about some of

the takeaways about that that kind of sets the context there.

Give me your kind of initial reactions to his comedy

there are regarding cancer and things like well, like you said,

you know, he's kind of the All American guy

I'm not sure I've ever heard him swear or at

least the big words. You know, hhe is somebody that I enjoy listening to.

He's really funny. And I think a big part of it is he's just talking

about everyday life that everybody relates to you. So I watched

the video that you sent, and I have to admit it, some of it.

I wasn't overly giggle giggle about you know, I think it might

have gone a little bit too far. And I know we're going to talk

about that. And but what bothered me more, I think was the audience

reaction that they all just really got at some of his jokes,

almost to the point of I thought it sounded like canned, you know,

it was just there really weren't really people there. And they were

just playing a laugh track. But it is a I think it is something you

know, because it touches everybody's lives. We have to deal

with it. You know, and, and as you and I have talked about on so

many of our programs, humor is a very big part of how we

get through this. And so it is kind of interesting, you know,

what, what's its kind of like art, right?

Somebody might think one piece is art and

somebody else looks at it goes through it. Not so much.

You know, and remember what part was you?

It seemed like some part of it was a little bit even offensive to you.

Perhaps I know if it was or not, but but do you remember

any particular joke or particular thing he talked about?

That was kind of what made you cringe a little bit there?

Oh, just kind of the whole devil conversation with?

Um, you know, he was he was, you know, he was

having conversation with the devil about cancer and

what he's gonna get cancer because he asked, well, that he

was gonna get cancer because he asked about it, then he

was getting and it just, maybe it was just it went a little too far.

Um, and and I'm not sure the devil had to be brought into it.

Maybe that was was what it was more than anything.

And and I listened to it and watched it several times.

And every time it was like, huh, really? Maybe not so much.

I think he could certainly been joking about it.

Without kind of that context.

Yeah, I think we all have our own personal line.

And in some, for some folks that may be a line

about when a joke is about someone that's one

thing or about kind of self deprecating, but if a joke

is at the expense of somebody else that might be aligned,

I think it's aligned, I often have we have a job is putting

somebody down, I'm not a big fan of that, or kind of making

light and a light in a non respective way of what people

are going going through I think MIT aligned

I have and then of course, some people you know,

have a line that has to do with you know, things of eternal nature,

heaven, hell, devils, angels, that kind of thing.

And, and I just think that part of a comedian's job,

as it were, is to kind of push the envelope and be a little bit

Oh, definitely, even someone who has a reputation of being,

you know, kind of a clean cut guy. He still, you know, goes and

pushes the envelope a little bit. And, and part I think I

really got a lot out of he talks about how people you know,

kind of avoid the word cancer, or they whisper cancer, right, you

know, assume that everybody that dies dies of cancer. Yes. Right.

And he also talked about, you know, sugar replacements,

things that people give people cancer, you know, and

the zodiac signs, you know, the sign of cancer, I happen to

my zodiac sign is cancer like this as well. And people have

made fun of that my whole life, I've made fun of that my

whole life too. Whereas I thought, why couldn't my sign

be something cool, you know, like, you know, the twins or something

like that, you know, that kind of thing. But no, it's got to be cancer, the crab.

And there are some good good parts about his routine and about,

but that thing about how the kind of the punishment

thing that cancer has, I think that maybe,

was it right, it was a punishment some

people see cancer as a punishment, and he became

a source of some of his humor. And, you know, I thought

that something that we need to be, I think, when you

and I talk, you know, we, you and I talk a lot about

how to turn, you know, turn the grid to a grid,

how to have fun and how to make them have

the dark humor and sometimes even morbid humor.

But, you know, there's, I think it's a little bit of a dance,

if you will, or a navigating and negotiating or trying to

free my wife likes to say, You got to read the room,

you know, right. Sometimes she feels like I there's

certain people I could say something to that maybe be

perceived as just you know, being to jerk and be a bit of a

jerk in a fun way, and other people could see me being a jerk and

not fun way, like being rude. Like being rude, that that type of thing.

And I just think these are we I think one thing is to learn from

professional comedians about how we can do interject humor into

these dark situations. And, and yet, try to be sensitive to right.

Storytelling is a big part of this.

So I think to sell it on, it is well,

and it's, it's as you said, it's one thing when we're

kind of telling our own story and poking fun at ourself.

Um, you know, now, I don't think it would have gone over

well, if he poked fun at his wife. Now, there could have been

things that happened while she was undergoing treatment

and all those that were funny. So yeah, that's that's kind of

a fine line. I admit, the giggle part for me was when he was

talking about his zodiac sign. Yeah. He was he was saying, you

know that as a little kid, he asked his sister, you know, what,

you know, when in and she told him, she said, Well,

your cancer and he said, I killed grandma.

Money. Yeah, that's it. That was a good one.

That was good. But he also had a joke that was self deprecating,

I thought anyway, he's a very pale skin guy.

And he made a made a remark or a joke about

skin, he was skin cancer waiting to happen waiting to happen, you know,

and how he was, you know, if he got the word cancer,

okay, let's wrap it up. It's over with, you know,

I don't have to pay for that wedding do I have to pay for

our wedding, things like that. So he's obviously very good at his craft.

And I've been fortunate to be around a few comedians, and, you

know, they, it is a bit of a bit of a, you know, a negotiated,

navigated type of thing. Sensitivity, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

And what do you think, do you think if we, uh, you are a person idea,

we were just telling a great story a minute ago about how,

during the treatment time, you had some, you know, some

crazy stuff happen, which were, where it looked like

somebody might be running off and trying to escape

the well, we had an escapee.

And it was a lot of fun. But that could have

been a serious situation, too, right?

Like you, you were able to make a light of a

fun with a chaotic situation and what I'm trying

to get at with you, because you I know you like to laugh and have fun.

But do you ever feel like there needs to be

a bit of a feeling out process for people who can have

different different levels of humor you can use there?

There definitely does.

You know, I think it is something where, as you said,

you have to read your audience.

I mean, you know, if, if you're first talking with somebody, you have to

watch humor of any level, you know, because you don't know

what their personal story is where their sensitivities lie.

You know, I wouldn't want to joke about having cancer,

say to somebody who may have just lost a loved one to cancer,

you know, that would just you know, not be appropriate at all.

So it is kind of one of those where yet you have to wait now

I you know, I do joke a little bit, you know, sometimes with

people you know, I joke about like my hair, um, you know,

I it was Oh, Good golly. Well, over a year after I had

finished chemo, my hair had come back all sorts of things.

And this lady literally walked up and pulled my

hair was like, Excuse me. And she's, well,

I wanted to know if you were wearing a wig.

Oh my gosh. And

I mean, physically went up and bowed.

You're physically pulled my hair and

backup bonked. I mean, you know,

and, but at the time, of course, I was really annoyed.

And then, you know, later on, it was humorous.

I was like, oh my god, I can't believe she did that.

But, you know, you see, it was like, was it you know,

during the moment, it's not funny later.

And this is where of course a good comedian comes in,

is they can put a spin on it to make it funny.

You know, and and so that's where it is. It's tricky.

And there's as you said, you're poking fun at someone that's always questionable.

Now poking fun at myself, that's fine. But yeah, you can find it somebody else especially

now I might you and I joke all the time.

But if somebody else were to hear some of what we say they

might go, what the heck you know, and and so

that's always the the delicate line.

I think you also maybe touched on literally touched

on a line that we need to be careful about, and that is

physically touching someone in a joke, or whatever.

We're pulling your hair that's that's not that's almost

Any situation, but I do have a guy who had had went

bald because of a cancer situation and he wore to pay.

But he wore fake ridiculous to pay. And he would take it off all the time.

But he meets somebody for the first time.

How you doing? Hey, check us out, you take his to pay off real goofball

that way. And it was kind of his shtick, you know, he's thick,

but he was doing it to himself. Right? So that's a different thing.

If you had said, Hey, dude, bad hair, that would have been insulting.

Yeah. And if you've know of other situations where you know,

somebody may be very vain about their appearance.

And that's a real important thing, right. And yet, I know some

other people have helped make light of you.

There's lots of situations you probably know of where a person got

cancer, or something, lost their hair and their buddies, or their girlfriends,

or whatever, shave their heads, or cut their hair, or whatever

it was, is a show of solidarity. And they had fun with it instead of being,

completely depressed and devastated.

They made it a camaraderie thing.

And we're in this in this together, even during this dark, dark thing.

And I think so, part of what we're talking about here is

how you face adversity with humor.

And somebody like Jim Gaffigan, who's facing, you know,

facing adversity, facing his wife's cancer, and other things

that he talks about, of course, on lots of other things,

stand up for your team, parenting and so on.

But it's one way of coping with it. But I just think it's important

that we, that we be sensitive about it to just try not to, if

we're going to be Have fun and be humorous, still,

there's probably gonna be times when we do cross the line.

And maybe it's appropriate to apologize sometimes.

You know, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry, whatever.

Well, and, and just know, you know, like we said, your new relationships.

Your I went to a new doctor last week, filling out my

bingo card, right? Yeah. And bless her.

She was the most serious person in the world.

Now. She should be right. Yo, she should be you're very serious.

What we were talking about was very serious.

But I my normal laughing happy, joking, self.

And no, and she, I could tell she was not getting that now.

You know, months down the line, when I've seen her more times,

maybe we will be able to joke and laugh about it.

But you know, it was like, Oh, honey, and I finally told her,

I said, You need to understand, I've been doing this.

I've been dealing with this for eight years.

I don't take a lot of it very seriously.

And I said, I am serious when I need to be and they sit but other times, no.

You know, and like even in the infusion room, you know,

they ask you what's your name, you know, and date of birth?

Well, my name to the people who I know.

Because, you know, this is obviously very serious.

You don't want to get the wrong medicine. Right.

But I tell them Anastasia beaver housing.

And you know, and they've decided I'm Princess Anastasia Beaverhausen.

And so yesterday, as I was leaving my treatment room,

one of the nurses have a Happy Memorial Day, everybody have a good one

and one of the nurses yells by Anastasia, and somebody

else looked down and went, No, that's Deb. And it was like, Oh, okay.

But so then we had to stop and explain. But, yeah, it was.

Yeah. Well, because as people, there's different levels, like

you have more people who know, you get to know you can understand your quirky parts.

Are you for me? It's dad jokes and things like that.

Some, you know, they just kind of my family especially

rolls her eyes and goes on and just, you know, not funny

dad just move on miss some if I didn't have them.

That's right. But I'm just other people, especially in

like this doctor patient relationship.

You know, I had a dentist one time, who could never stop the yucks,

you know, and that was on the other side, and I like to have fun.

But he would be yucking it up the whole time and never serious.

And I never got I end up leaving him because I just couldn't get couldn't

figure out what we were doing there. You know, there comes I think there's comes a time to have some fun in order to kind of break the ice, if you will, or to help you to cope with it.

And then to get on with, you know, whatever the serious matter is,

and I think my yearly you know, I really do think Deb,

most really good relationships have an element of humor in them,

but they also have an element of intimacy, right,

that humor kind of helps you helps you get to do you think that's definitely

Yeah. And and I think that's why we have to wait until

we kind of know a little bit about somebody to know

Okay, is this gonna work or not? You know, and, and so

Oh, yeah, you know, it's, and it's interesting because, of course,

a comedian like Jim Gaffigan. I mean, we go expecting him to be telling jokes.

And, you know, but you don't always expect that when you're

at your doctor or you know, things like that.

But you might not go to an actual comedy show in a club

and expect the jokes to be about cancer, you may not expect that.

So what this is kind of bring us around to this day and see

what you think, what are some lessons learned from the professional comedian,

dealing with, you know, a serious subject like cancer in his own life,

that can be applicable to those of us as we go to our doctor's

appointments as we go to deal with family, anybody else?

What are some lessons learned here that we can apply to our situations?

You know, to me, I think the biggest one is exactly

what you were saying that he talked about at the start,

we talk about it in hushed tones of cancer. It's okay to joke about it.

And to bring even if the jokes fall flat, I would prefer that the jokes

fall flat and we have to, you know, back up and apologize or whatever,

rather than ignoring it. And you know, we should not be you know,

putting our little heads in the sand like ostriches we need to be talking about it.

Yeah, I think it's a well well said, Well,

I think we learned, I think part of what we're doing here on Cancer and Comedy,

and one of my dreams is to have Jim Gaffigan as a guest on our show,

Oh my gosh,

and some other folks as well. So we can learn, you know, some of these actual,

immediate principles that can be applied to real life here. And that that kind of stuff.

That would be great.

Awesome.

Great. Well, you know,

we were talking about Dr. Brad's bad dad jokes, and

we can't live without him.

So we're gonna have another one.