Bridge the Gap Between Medical Care and Emotional Care with Cancer Doula Talaya Dendy

Dr. Brad Miller 0:00

Today we have Talaya Dendy with us. She is a cancer doula, a cancer thriver, a Cancer Health Equity consultant, a Mental Health First Aider, and a podcaster. She has dedicated her career to advocating for guiding, supporting and hap powering people diagnosed with cancer. She is the founder and CEO of the On The Other Side LLC, which is a cancer navigation enterprise. And she provides support using patient centered and holistic approach. She has the podcast, navigating cancer together, and the book, I survived cancer. And here's how I did it. You can find her at the website ontheotherside.life and I know her to be an incredibly tremendous person. Talaya Dendy welcome to our podcast here on cancer comedy today.

Talaya Dendy 0:52

Dr. Miller, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to talk with you again. I'm so excited for our conversation this evening.

Dr. Brad Miller 1:01

I was privileged to be a part of your podcast, navigating cancer together here recently, what you had to share had to be a part of what we share here on our cancer and comedy tour cancer comedy audience. And so, Talaya, but here's what I want to ask you. What is something recently that put a smile on your face?

Talaya Dendy 1:23

Oh, wow. You know, I'll keep it very simple. Today, I actually was going to not go for a walk. And that was because I was just woke up feeling a little tired. And let's just like, I don't really feel like it. Now I'm an avid walker, I try to walk at least four or five times a week and I walk fast. I'm a power Walker. But my body was saying, you can still go for a walk. Just just slow down the pace. Take your time, it's okay. So thankfully, I listened. And I was able to really take in the beautiful fall colors here in Minnesota, with the changing leaves. And just hearing the birds, the sun was shining, just taken my time, clearing my mind, taking in the beautiful fall colors, connecting with nature. That is something that really brought me joy and peace today. And it's actually what I needed. And it was one of the best walks that I've had in a very long time.

Dr. Brad Miller 2:26

You were listening to a bit of the positive side and the energetic side and the side that says, Okay, go forth to do something that's going to be productive rather than whatever the other messages were other things like guilt or whatever it would be. You did this and it brought you joy in your life. And I love to talk about that in our, in our podcasts, your cancer and comedy because we deal with some pretty serious things in life. And you have had some transitions in your life. Based on your health journey. You're going along pretty good in your life. When things changed, didn't they?

Talaya Dendy 3:02

They changed big time, Dr. Miller and and I went to my primary care doctor because I had noticed a small lump on my neck. And you know, I was a little concerned because at that time, it wasn't hard or big or anything but it was new. So I'm wondering, I'm like, Hmm, what's going on with this? So she didn't really seem bothered by it or at all. She didn't ask any questions. He didn't touch it. She's just like, Oh, don't worry about it. You work out a lot. It's probably a pulled muscle. Fast forward to 2011. That pulled muscle was now a big lump, a hard lump. So I shared with my mom that I had this lump. It had been there for a while. And I was just kind of concerned in a way by how that previous doctor does really didn't look into it. So she suggested that I go to her doctor, and her doctors response was totally different. She touched it. She looked at it and she asked a series of questions. Once she touched it, I could tell that there was something wrong.

Dr. Brad Miller 4:14

Just by the way the doctor touched her to maybe her countenance or things like that. Ah, okay.

Talaya Dendy 4:19

Yes, after she touched it, her countenance told it all. And I didn't think it was cancer though. So she said immediately I need for you within the next couple of days to go in for an ultrasound that came back inconclusive. So had to do another exam. This time it was a fine needle aspiration and that is where they take a small sample size of tissue and cells in that area. That came back inconclusive because supposedly the sample size that they got was not big enough. Okay, now it's time for a partial biopsy. Oh, That lymph node, do that. And finally, I would say about three to four days later, on my way home from work on a Friday, I get a call from the nurse. And she says I regret to inform you that the your test results came back. And you have Hodgkin's lymphoma. And everything stood still. Everything was as quiet as it's ever been in my life. And I kind of sat there. And I said, What? And she said, Oh, the results came back and you have Hodgkin's lymphoma. I said, what is that? So she said, Well, it's a form of cancer. And when she said cancer,

Dr. Brad Miller 5:49

that's when he dropped it in it. Wow.

Talaya Dendy 5:51

That's when it got real then. And so I had all these questions. So I just flat started firing off all these questions

Dr. Brad Miller 5:59

before you go into that too far. I want to add, I like to ask this question. Sometimes when people when they have this moment, when things stood still, like time stood still? Do you have kind of an image here today of what that meant for you? You know, like, can you see where you're at? Can you kind of, say the time of day can what are what are some details about that moment? So give me kind of set the scene for me.

Talaya Dendy 6:25

Yeah. Oh, there were, the scene looks like this. It is a spring day, about 4:30 in the evening. The sun is shining spring evening in April. You know, the seasons are changing. We're coming out of that cold weather here in Minnesota. And just enjoying the ride home. The sun is shining. It's not cold. It's not hot, but it's just right. Driving along, and I get this call. And everything just stood still. And once she shared with me the diagnosis, I started firing off all these questions. And she stopped me and she said, Honey, I'm so sorry. I know you're scared. But you're asking questions that I simply cannot answer. She said, but I will tell you that my husband had Hodgkin's lymphoma years ago, and he's doing fine today. Okay. Of course, that really didn't help me a whole lot. Because I didn't know what that meant for me. Sure. And so I was of course shaken up. I was so shaken up. I pulled over there's a TJ Maxx that I used to pass every day going home from work, I parked my car in the parking lot at TJ Maxx, went inside of TJ Maxx, and I just walked around the store. I wasn't looking for anything

Dr. Brad Miller 7:51

you weren't shopping or buying you were just processing.

Talaya Dendy 7:54

I was processing. And I knew there were no answers for me and TJ Maxx. But I knew that I had to calm myself to be able to get home and figure out what to do next. So I walked around for about 30 minutes or so gathered myself, made it home, I called my family. Let them know what I had the news I had received. And of course they had all these questions. Of course, I had to pause them the way the nurse pause me. And I said, I understand that you have questions, you might even be afraid. I'm definitely afraid I have so many questions. I don't have any answers right now. And I won't know anything else until I talk with the cancer center next week. So one thing I did for myself was I asked for space. And I said to my family. If you don't mind, please just give me this weekend to myself. And let me just really sit with what I've heard this news that I've received. And I didn't know what I was doing at that time. I just knew what God told me to do. And what God told me to ask for now that I look back, I know exactly why he put that inside of me. And so I asked for that

Dr. Brad Miller 9:22

why you put that inside of you mean that pause is we're just talking about that time to pause.

Talaya Dendy 9:26

Yes, that time to pause.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:30

Yeah. Was that hard for your family, by the way? Or were they WHAT DID YOU KNOW was Was it hard for them to hold back?

Talaya Dendy 9:37

Because of course you know, they want to love on you, but they want to know what's going on how they can help what you know. But I didn't know what I needed. At that time. Of course, I just knew that I needed space and I knew that I needed to start to process and work with what I had received and try to figure out what that meant for my life in that moment.

There's a lot of people when they get news, there's variations of reactions of shock, denial, depression, when you start the processing part, what kind of things were going on with you?

I started crying. I started thinking, Well, what did I do wrong? I was angry. I was frustrated because I didn't have answers. And I'm an analytical person. So I wanted to be able to put together pieces, so I can start to plan. I'm like, I got two whole days here where I can't do anything. But I did what I needed to do it. And that was worked through those emotions, every emotion possible, I probably felt it. I felt like my future was slipping between my my fingers. You know, climbing the corporate ladder, starting a family, all those things were just, I'm like, I don't even know if I'm gonna live. But I wasn't focused on dying either. I was focused on Okay, let me work through these emotions so that they don't handicap me. I need to be able to think clearly, I need to be able to strategize and figure out what I need to do to get my mind around this thing. And it was a long weekend, I tell you, I didn't leave the house. But I cried a lot. I talked to God a lot. I just journaled a lot. I thought about what I wanted, in living after cancer. But I also thought about well, what if I die? How do I want that to be sure? What am I leaving behind something good? How will people remember me?

It's going through a lot of these what if scenarios, it sounds like this, all the various crazy places your mind goes with how it impacts other people, but also how it impacts you how you're going to feel what's going to be like, all that kind of thing. And that's good, because you got to go through that kind of thing or to start to navigate. What's next. You can't in my opinion, you can't really navigate what's next until you at least had some idea of the options out there or what is possible. So you have to deal with some of the reality. So what brought you what happened? I am now curious to lay out what happened after the weekend. Wait, did you have to go back to work on Monday or what? What was the situation for you?

So that weekend at work through all those emotions. And I prayed, I woke up Monday morning, and I had this wheel inside of me that oh, that God put there. I knew what to do. I woke up a different person. I woke up to lay the advocate. So I called into my job, I said that I would be in late. I called the cancer center, I started getting tests and things like that setup because they have to do staging to determine what kind of treatment will will be best for you. I got connected with an oncologist and I started the ball rolling for that whole process. A few days later, I actually met with my oncologist. And I looked him in his face. And I said, I am new to cancer. I don't know very much about it other than what I've seen on TV. And what they normally show is someone who's frail, walking down a hospital corridor, pushing an IV pole. I don't want to be that person. So I need for us to work together. I am going to be a participant in my care. We I would like for us to be partners. I'm going to ask a lot of questions. And I'm going to decide on how I want this to look for me. But I want your honesty throughout this whole process. And let's talk about it. Let's talk about what my options are. And that very first day I came with my notebook and pen. That's from me asking God, what should I do? Because again, I never had to face anything like cancer, the sickest I had ever been was the flu. So I wasn't a savvy healthcare consumer. But because a year prior, I just went along with what that doctor said, and I didn't

that was your only real experience at that point, wasn't it before you went to with your mom's doctor? Which kind of gives us an indication that even among the medical world, there's options there isn't there that way? And this is part of what you do with your advocacy now.

That's right. Yeah. And so because I showed up for myself that first day, and every time I had an appointment with my oncologist, I showed up with my pin in my notebook, and I asked questions, and I said I treated my appointments. Prior to those appointments, I treated it like I was studying for an exam. Yeah. What do I need to know? To move to make my next best move? Wow, what do I need to consider? How will this affect my life?

So you kind of bugged the docs didn't Yeah. I've always let's be honest, I know it's I hear this with Doc, sometimes I got some doctors who are friends. And they, you know, they love a lot of their patients who are good questions. askers. And they sometimes right away with some of them who really are. And I don't know where you stood on that I just saying that. It's possible that you were one of those. What else, folks, but it's to your credit Talaya because it's your body? Your health, right?

That's right. That's thankfully, my doctor, he was like, I respect that. Bring it on, bring it on board. And that one time? Did we have a class or an argument and that one time did I feel like he was not telling me the truth. And that helped me tremendously.

Whereas what I'm hearing here, right now to lay about just stage of your experience with cancer, when people are shocked, they have to have time to take a breath. You know, it literally, is sometimes people use the phrase that knocked the wind out of your left knocked the breath out of me. And that almost literally to true, it was for me at least take the breath out you so you got to have time to breathe. And that two days sound like you're breathing time. And then you got to get back at it. So you used words, that on Monday morning, you were ready to go. Like and being an advocate and asking questions in partnership with your doctors. With being prepared. You showed up I love that term you use I showed up. You are present, you know you weren't just go along for the ride tells me something that I really advocate and that's toward action. You got to take action. Tell me then how your actions then led to whatever came next for you.

My actions led to me really understanding what was going to take place throughout this whole treatment phase. It really led me to forming good relationships with my health care team. It really I think also led my healthcare team to be more invested, in a sense in not only my survival, but their success in saying hey, this is a young woman who came in here, stage three, mind you because it's a whole year later, okay, Hodgkin's lymphoma. And the survival rate of Hodgkin's lymphoma is pretty good. And they had a pretty standard treatment of care for someone at my age and that stage. But it led to me forming good relationships, getting through the cancer treatment fairly well, they were actually shocked. And it just helped me continue to learn. I looked at this thing called cancer, as I won't even say a challenge, but as a project as a course. Because I feel like in order for me to another way for me to survive, it was to really learn about it and understand how it worked. The other thing that came out of it was just seeing all the different people that go through this. Yeah. None of them were my age. Where were they? None of them at the cancer center. Were really my race. I didn't see any other black people in the infusion room when I would go. How interesting. Yeah. So it really left me with a lot of other questions. Yeah.

That's interesting, because it means it took you to some pathways that are all were not only health related, but they were societal related. They were raised relations related. They were socially socially economically related. You had some things, some learning you had a lot of learning to do, and quickly and quickly. So that's kind of the intellectual kind of part of this. And that's a good thing, too. But there's also there's a spiritual, emotional aspect of this. It's a part of your process, too. So tell me a little bit today about what kind of a spiritual journey you went through this time. Was this a challenge to your faith that it strengthened it?

It actually strengthened my faith, my faith, because I knew early on that this wasn't something that I could do alone and with my own understanding, some strength from somewhere else, which would be Add, I knew that God Hand had his hand on me that, for some reason, I just knew it wasn't my time. Even though when I first heard it, I thought about the possibility of dying. But that's not what drove me. That's not where I got it must be trying to tell me something now that guy would do this to me, what's in this? What good is in this for me. And so that's a thought that I kept in the back of my mind throughout my whole cancer journey was like, what's going to be different? What must be different, I was on six months of disability. So during that time, I had time to really just think about other areas of my life that may need healing to. And that there were areas work, for example, extremely stressed out extremely overworked, just in negative toxic environments, relationships where I thought people were my friends, but they really weren't. So there were a lot of different areas of my life that I evaluated and worked on healing as well. And I don't think that would have been possible, Brad, without praying for clarity, yes, saying for what else needs to change? Where do I need to get better? And because I, in a sense, was forced to sit still. Yeah, what else is there to do, other than look inward and upward. And once those two things connected, I knew I was going to be on a good path. If I just stayed focused on those things.

What is cancer done to you, which is kind of the, you know, the physical damage and so on, but also what is cancer done for you. And it sounds like, in this case, you've had some a deeper walk spiritually. And you've had this intellectual journey as well. So let's go to the emotional part of it about family, friends who were supportive, or maybe people who helped to lighten the load a little bit. Tell me about that aspect of things.

Oh, yes, my mom and brother were instrumental in helping me to get through it. My mom wouldn't get off of work. Come with me to chemo and we will schedule it on a particular day so that she could get time off from work. Stay with me for a couple of days, and then go back and get ready for work the next week. Okay. And so my mom did that. I had chemo for six months. Wow, she did that for six months. She will prepare my one of my favorite dishes, which is red beans and rice. Okay, good. Yeah, she would pray for me. She would tell me. It's gonna be okay, baby girl. You're gonna make it. Okay.

She did the mama. Thank goodness

That's did the mama thing. Yeah, they my brother, you know, he would, he would come over spend time with me. Even when I wasn't feeling well, he would just sit there, you know, and crack jokes. And we'd watch something on TV or whatever.

Yeah. Tell me about a lighter moment with your brother or with your mother or someone else that was able to lighten the load a little bit, maybe even a humorous moment or something that he did or said that cut out? Or was I call them uplifting moments

one moment that really lifted my spirits. And I shared this with you on my show? Yes, I used to seek out comedy. And especially when I was home by myself, and I would just put in, I would watch Richard Pryor. Yeah. And, and just his mannerisms, and how he would act would just crack me up. But then there was also a show called wheeling grace. I had the DVD for that. And so I will watch that and just crack up. But really just sitting back with like my mom or my brother and just reflecting on things in the past good times. So laughing at those things. All of those things brought me joy and humor,

some of those fun, silly founding moments that came. Let's talk Talaya for a little bit now about you had to give back to others. And you have a podcast, you have a book. You are a doula you do advocacy work? What led to that doing all those things for others and tell us about some of the things that you do the

things that I had to learn that quick learning curve that I had to experience and endure. That led me to think and I'm sure other people are feeling this way as well. Oh, boy, there's a lot to learn. I'm overwhelmed. All those things. There's a gap that other people may not know about between the medical and emotional sides of cancer. Yes, yeah. And that emotional side is not well taken care of when someone is being treated for cancer, that was my main focus as well is making sure that people got what they needed emotionally.

So you're looking to close the gap by once we do

Close the gap yeah. And so, after my treatment was done, I went back to work. But of course, I'm a different person now. It just didn't feel right. I'm like, Oh, I don't really enjoy this anymore. But I'm still thinking about all the other people who might be going through cancer, and they just feel lost. They don't have a good oncologist. And they don't know where to turn. And so that desire to help people and to help bridge the gap between the medical and emotional sides of cancer, that planted a seed, that, you know, maybe this is my purpose. I know my purpose was to help. I just didn't know how I knew that God brought me through cancer. But for what reason? This is my purpose. This is why I went through this, this is what I'm supposed to do. So as a cancer doula, what I do is I support individuals and families that have been diagnosed with cancer, I hope them to mindfully navigate cancer in the healthcare system, so that they can get on the other side of cancer and reclaim their lives. And that's what it's all about is letting people know that because you get a diagnosis, it doesn't mean you're gonna die. Focus on what reason do you have to live use that as your motivation to keep going? And I'm here to help you get through it?

Well, let's, let's go with that for a second. Talia. What do you go through an initial conversation to help kind of map out how you're going to navigate cancer with them?

People find me via word of mouth or Google search, where they share their diagnosis when they were diagnosed, what they're currently doing, if anything, and we start there. During that initial conversation, we're talking about what challenges are you facing? What kind of support do you have? And what do you think you need right now? Once they share that with me, I share with them how I can support them, and what we can plan on doing based on what they've shared with me, how I can help them walk through the process,

how that's worked with a person or family that you've worked with, about how you've been able to navigate things and how it a result of that came about.

Absolutely, so a woman reached out on behalf of her mother, her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. And they really didn't know what to do, either. They felt like the current doctor that she had just wasn't very receptive, wasn't very personable, and could care less about answering their questions. So they reached out to me, and they share with me their frustrations, share with me what they were not getting. And based on that conversation, I said, this is how I can help you. Here are some strategies to try to form it number one, form a better relationship with your doctor, here are some questions that you may want to x, see how that goes. Now, if you still don't feel like this is a good bit. Let's work on getting a set another doctor or a second opinion. And so we worked on doing that,

which can be an intimidating process in and of itself for a lot of folks. Yeah

Absolutely because they don't want to rock the boat. And they're not sure what especially if someone's already started treatment. They're like, well, I don't know what this is gonna look like now if I start with a new doctor. And so then what I did is okay, here's the process of getting a second opinion. Let's start to look for these doctors, let's start to ask these doctors questions, while you're trying to see if this relationship with your current doctor can be salvage. So during those things in parallel, to try to minimize any loss of time, because time is important. And so they ultimately decided that no, we don't we don't want to stay with this doctor. And so again, we gave them questions to ask their doctor to you know, this new doctor that they were seeking out, gave them things to consider to make sure it was a good fit for them. So they went with this new doctor. So the next phase now that she got this new doctor, she feels pretty good. They're answering her questions. She's getting what she needs to a certain extent. Now she's trying is time let's get you prepared for the surgery. Here are questions you need to x. Here is information about how women in the past have prepared for mastectomy. Here are things you need to look out for or here are some resources and some tools or products that you may want to look into, for example, drains, she didn't even know that she would need drains after surgery. So getting her connected with those things.

So this was informative, informational and educational, I guess, we might say, but also the emotional support. But also, you're also given them kind of a template as it were for the questions to ask and this type of thing, where these questions come from your own experience, or just your research of sound like you worked out a kind of a step by step process here.

Yes, a step by step process. And to answer your question, it was both from my own experience and what has been proven to help me, but then also research because mind you, I didn't have breast cancer. But I know a lot of women and even men who have, and there's tons, you know, have information about what to x, what to consider when having breast cancer surgery. But people they don't have the time, they don't feel well. So that is why I do what I do also is to lighten that load for those people. So they don't have to worry about all this. They can just focus on healing.

Yeah, the you have access and information and you've repackaged it in such a way through step by step process of, of coaching or however you however you work it out. And yeah. Has it been successful?

It's been successful. Yes, this particular woman She has since finished radiation. And prior to her radiation, she reached out and said, Talia, can you help me get prepared, I'm really nervous. I don't know what to expect, they really haven't told me a whole lot. So I shared with her what that radiation process looks like, what they're going to do to get you prepped for radiation. And so by giving her those tools and that information that helped to reduce her anxiety, which of course was caused by uncertainty,

information is power. Information is alleviates that tension. And so what a great service, what a great service.

It every day I wake up and I'm excited about what I whatever it is I get to do today. And Brad, I've met so many amazing people like you. So that's another way that it feeds my soul. Honestly, it opened up my world, to all different kinds of people.

And it sounds like an aspect of this for you. And let's just say a word about this is your podcast, your book, your speaking your advocacy beyond your practice, your doula practice?

Sure. So I'll start with a podcast that actually is a spin off of my business. So my podcast is a way for me to give back and say, Hey, here's another way where you can get information, you can connect with other people. And you can do it whenever it's convenient for you. There's a book that I'm a contributing author to it's called, I survive cancer. And here's how I did it. That is another way to give back to people by sharing inspiring stories. One of them happens to be mine. And there's I think 3435 other people involved as well. Showing people and telling people that hey, even though you may be looking cancer in the face right now, but just hang on. There's hope. Hang on to hope. Hang on to our stories. And you will get through on the other side and see that yeah, they're still life.

I know you've been a contributed a part of a conversation called Love Letters. Can you say a word about that?

Yes, so love letters to our bodies is a workshop that was started by Moyo Institute, they had learned that Black or African American women really suffer from cancer, we die at a higher rate of breast cancer. were diagnosed at later stages to Porton, honor black women who have gone through breast cancer or any kind of cancer. This project was done to allow us to write love letters to our bodies. And unfortunately, due to societal factors and beliefs, a lot of times our bodies, our bodies are viewed in negative ways, black women, but really women in general. And so this was a way for a bunch of us to get together to learn about different healing modalities, to meditate together to share our cancer experiences together and write these love letters to our body. And all of our love letters have been compiled into a book.

Well, let's just bring this conversation around with the love letter and a sense that you have given to our audience to bring a smile to their face, but I would like for you to be kind of specific from me today as we kind of bring our conversation to a close. This all started with you as a person being impacted by cancer getting that Shocking phone call that taken away took your breath away. And what am I going to do now? That's where we started our conversation, right? And how we also talked a little bit about how about how walking the nature, put a smile on your face. Let's bring this around to death. There's a woman out there, particularly a woman because it gets who your target audience primarily is, who is got a frown on her face and has had some bad news, it might be health related, maybe breast cancer could be something else. But let's focus on that, that she's in that take your breath away stage, she's in that shock stage, what is some word of encouragement that might even put a smile on her face, that might be some word of encouragement out of your experience and what you can offer that might speak into the life of that of that woman who's right now thinking, My body has betrayed me or whatever she's saying,

first of all, pause. Give yourself grace. And remind yourself that you've been through hard things before. Tap into what you used before, to get through those other tough times. Pray about it. Think about the good things in your life. Use those things for motivation. And just remember that this bad news, it won't last forever. And ask God to give you direction. Ask them to give you strength. But then also reach out to people that you trust and look within. Always look within. And don't give up. Just don't give up. Focus on the reasons that you have to keep going. And it could it can be maybe your children. It can be something you have yet to do in this world. Focus on those things. But this is a moment in time, a moment in your life. I can tell you that when I thought when I got those words you have cancer. Now that I look back 12 years later, that was a small fraction of my life so far, and so many good things have happened. So just remember that it's a moment in your life is not your entire life and it doesn't define you whatever that is,

well it's a moment in your life and don't give up what a profound and poignant way to close our conversation. And I thank you and if you want to hear more of this wonderful soothing voice your I just got to say that does incredible sue the voice of delay at the end. You just really need to check out her podcast Navigating Cancer Together is her podcast. And you can find her at at her website ontheotherside.life. It has been a pleasure and a privilege to have Talaya Dendy as our guest today on Cancer and Comedy